What do you think the protests are about? I tend to see opinions on them are dependent on whatever information folks have about them.

For the record, the main crux of these protests are about the universities sending financial donations and aid to various agencies that support IDF military actions, with students (and various faculty members) wanting them to stop. Similar protests occurred in the '80s over South Africa apartheid.

Yeah, there's more, but most of it comes off like noise intent on distracting from that key issue.

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Last edited by Sykonee on May-07-2024 at 23:57

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Originally posted by Sykonee What do you think the protests are about? I tend to see opinions on them form dependent on whatever information folks have about them. For the record, the main crux of these protests are about the universities sending financial donations and aid to various agencies that support IDF military actions, with students (and various faculty members) wanting them to stop. Similar protests occurred in the '80s over South Africa apartheid. Yeah, there's more, but most of it comes off like noise intent on distracting from that key issue.

I think I keep hearing/seeing the noise which does distract me.

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quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee For the record, the main crux of these protests are about the universities sending financial donations and aid to various agencies that support IDF military actions, with students (and various faculty members) wanting them to stop.

Unfortunately this is the part that doesn't get the attention. I'm consuming about 50 hours a week of news, coverage, material etc about the conflict and it took me almost a day to find any official statement from Columbia or USC. That is something you can criticize on their part but it should be mentioned that legacy media does everything it can to not mention it.

On the actual topic, I think the students have been extremely brave regardless of how I feel about some of their tactics/messaging. The media reaction has been expected. The Palestinian cause never gets fair criticism from mainstream news outlets and if they aren't going to be fair considering the past 7 months, they never will be.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced any party from 2003 and back I only remember bits and pieces...i've combined those memories into one awesome party

The problem is that there's so much to say about the protests (and what caused them). What exactly do you want to know more about? There's the whole question of whether divestment will have a lasting effect, whether the police should have arrested the protesting students, not to mention the reaction to the protests and, of course, the conflict itself, which has roots that go way back.

Unfortunately, nothing about this is simple, straightforward, or easy.

Ps.: If you're into audiobooks, The Middle East in the 20th Century is on sale if you have an Audible membership. These are useful lectures that encompass much of what we need to know

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Last edited by Lira on May-08-2024 at 02:36

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Originally posted by Lira Unfortunately, nothing about this is simple, straightforward, or easy.

This!!! I think that's what's been driving me crazy.

Thank you, everyone. I appreciate the feedback and am slowly pulling my head out of my ass.

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I've got nothing to say about the protests, but the whole Israel - Palestine issue is yet another example of an incredibly tedious culture war in our society where everyone immediately adopts an intensely polarised position on an extremely complex issue and starts demonstratively shouting about it. As far as I can see, both sides are complete cunts and it seems brutal violence is the only thing that's going to resolve this decades old cluster fuck.

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There's a video from NYU where a protester is interviewed and asked what it is that NYU is doing that they want to change, and she admits she doesn't really know. She asks a fellow protester, who doesn't seem to know either. Hard to say whether these were actual protesters or part of the interviewer's crew to shoot these kinds of videos and make the protesters seem clueless in order to undermine the protests, but I do feel like in these gatherings there's bound to be a good amount of people present who don't really know what they're protesting. Some of them seem like they hadn't heard of Israel or Palestine before the most recent bout of violence, let alone their history.

Could be interesting to hear how many of the protesters hold pro-Russian sentiments, too, after they've spent some time in an anti-Israel protest.

There are, of course, people on both sides of the debate who are very well researched, but there are an enormous number of bandwagon jumpers who know four fifths of fuck all about the conflict. And the ones who are most vocal are very rarely the ones who actually know what they're talking about.

After the Houthis started attacking international shipping in the Red Sea they deemed to be helping supply the Israelis, the US responded by striking targets in Yemen to deter them. The very next morning, I saw someone on social media share a link that said "The US are firing missiles at Yemen - contact your local MP (member of parliament) now!" This was some circus-performing psy trance hippy as well. What the fuck do these people think they know about military strategy? What do they know about what targets the US are striking and whether those strikes are likely to be effective? And what do they think a British member of parliament is going to do about it if they get a few emails or a malnourished petition in their inbox? All I could think was: what's the real reason you're sharing this link? Is it to make a difference, or is to take a performative stance on an issue? I know what my money is on.

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J circus-performing psy trance hippy

LOLOLOLOL

quote:

Originally posted by Lira The problem is that there's so much to say about the protests (and what caused them). What exactly do you want to know more about? There's the whole question of whether divestment will have a lasting effect, whether the police should have arrested the protesting students, not to mention the reaction to the protests and, of course, the conflict itself, which has roots that go way back.

Just wanted to clarify that I was replying directly to the OP's question in the literal sense rather than expand on the entire conflict. Mainly because it always has the potential to explode into a shitshow thread (and to be honest I can see this thread being that in about 2 days).

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quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced any party from 2003 and back I only remember bits and pieces...i've combined those memories into one awesome party