|
|
| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
Which is hardly an idea locked in "liberal" ideology. Both conservative AND liberal governments tax the citizenry and spend it in ways that they hope or believe will raise the standard of living for the tax-payers. |
By your logic, taxation is forcible wealth distribution from rich to poor. As I'v already said, Jesus's 'sell everything and give to the poor' quote, is sooooo socialist and should be edited to, "Give only enough to shut those anti-capitalist liberals up so they can't say you'r a greedy bastard." |
|
|
| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
By your logic, taxation is forcible wealth distribution from rich to poor. As I'v already said, Jesus's 'sell everything and give to the poor' quote, is sooooo socialist and should be edited to, "Give only enough to shut those anti-capitalist liberals up so they can't say you'r a greedy bastard." |
Taxation, and what's done with our taxes, is a separate issue from "give all of your belongings to the poor" (and are also two separate examples, found in two separate passages of the Bible, you're trying to combine the two quotes to mean something they do not). In one case (Give all of your belongings away), you are freely, and willingly, giving your stuff away to those in need (stuff, by the way, that belongs to YOU, not "Ceasar", as taxes do), while in the other (taxes) you are forced to pay an amount of money, and have no say in how it's spent. In one case, a man is asking how to get to heaven, which, according to the passage, requires a WILLFUL giving away of your excesses to the needy. In the second example, the Pharasies are simply asking Jesus whether or not a man should pay his taxes, to which Jesus replies "Yes, because Ceasar created that money, so pay him what he is owed from it."
You used the example of "give your belongings to the poor" as a possible passage that may be found to be "too liberal". Which is nonsense, because a Liberal says "You won't give that money away, so we're going to take it and give it away for you.", while Jesus says "To get into heaven, you must WILLINGLY give your belongings away to the needy", which are two VERY different messages (In fact, the command to GIVE your things, rather than having them TAKEN away, lines up much more neatly with conservative ideology, that says that lowered taxes allows the citizen to CHOOSE how their money is spent).
You used "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's" as a possible example of a passage that is "too Liberal", which is also nonsense, since both Liberal AND Conservative governments charge taxes that we must pay. Simply telling us to pay our taxes is hardly a Liberal idea, so why would it be considered for editing by a bunch of right-wing nutbars? |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
Taxation, and what's done with our taxes, is a separate issue from "give all of your belongings to the poor" (and are also two separate examples, found in two separate passages of the Bible, you're trying to combine the two quotes to mean something they do not). In one case (Give all of your belongings away), you are freely, and willingly, giving your stuff away to those in need (stuff, by the way, that belongs to YOU, not "Ceasar", as taxes do), while in the other (taxes) you are forced to pay an amount of money, and have no say in how it's spent. In one case, a man is asking how to get to heaven, which, according to the passage, requires a WILLFUL giving away of your excesses to the needy. In the second example, the Pharasies are simply asking Jesus whether or not a man should pay his taxes, to which Jesus replies "Yes, because Ceasar created that money, so pay him what he is owed from it."
You used the example of "give your belongings to the poor" as a possible passage that may be found to be "too liberal". Which is nonsense, because a Liberal says "You won't give that money away, so we're going to take it and give it away for you.", while Jesus says "To get into heaven, you must WILLINGLY give your belongings away to the needy", which are two VERY different messages (In fact, the command to GIVE your things, rather than having them TAKEN away, lines up much more neatly with conservative ideology, that says that lowered taxes allows the citizen to CHOOSE how their money is spent).
You used "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's" as a possible example of a passage that is "too Liberal", which is also nonsense, since both Liberal AND Conservative governments charge taxes that we must pay. Simply telling us to pay our taxes is hardly a Liberal idea, so why would it be considered for editing by a bunch of right-wing nutbars? |
Is it so much of a choice when the alternative is to go to hell? Hmmm one might think it's easier to simply leave the country if you don't like paying its taxes. That is an option you know. Apparentely there's no alternative for the hell bit ... not much of a "choice". |
|
|
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
The Karl Marx revised edition of the Holy Bible is the one, true word, as re-interpreted by His most significant prophet. Catholics are clearly just behind as usual! :o |
Ever read Russell's History of Western Philosophy? His biblical analogy of Marx is spot on :) |
|
|
| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Is it so much of a choice when the alternative is to go to hell? Hmmm one might think it's easier to simply leave the country if you don't like paying its taxes. That is an option you know. Apparentely there's no alternative for the hell bit ... not much of a "choice". |
Yes, because there's no guarantee that Hell actually exists. What we KNOW is that we're alive right now, and we have power over the choices we make during this life. Whether or not a person believes in Hell is a choice they also have to make. |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
Yes, because there's no guarantee that Hell actually exists. What we KNOW is that we're alive right now, and we have power over the choices we make during this life. Whether or not a person believes in Hell is a choice they also have to make. |
What??? Are you saying that hell is not mentioned by the bible? I have no idea what you're talking about. Please rectify it with aforementioned biblical scripture. |
|
|
| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
Taxation, and what's done with our taxes, is a separate issue from "give all of your belongings to the poor" (and are also two separate examples, found in two separate passages of the Bible, you're trying to combine the two quotes to mean something they do not). In one case (Give all of your belongings away), you are freely, and willingly, giving your stuff away to those in need (stuff, by the way, that belongs to YOU, not "Ceasar", as taxes do), while in the other (taxes) you are forced to pay an amount of money, and have no say in how it's spent. In one case, a man is asking how to get to heaven, which, according to the passage, requires a WILLFUL giving away of your excesses to the needy. In the second example, the Pharasies are simply asking Jesus whether or not a man should pay his taxes, to which Jesus replies "Yes, because Ceasar created that money, so pay him what he is owed from it."
You used the example of "give your belongings to the poor" as a possible passage that may be found to be "too liberal". Which is nonsense, because a Liberal says "You won't give that money away, so we're going to take it and give it away for you.", while Jesus says "To get into heaven, you must WILLINGLY give your belongings away to the needy", which are two VERY different messages (In fact, the command to GIVE your things, rather than having them TAKEN away, lines up much more neatly with conservative ideology, that says that lowered taxes allows the citizen to CHOOSE how their money is spent).
You used "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's" as a possible example of a passage that is "too Liberal", which is also nonsense, since both Liberal AND Conservative governments charge taxes that we must pay. Simply telling us to pay our taxes is hardly a Liberal idea, so why would it be considered for editing by a bunch of right-wing nutbars? |
How forceful can you be when the alternative is going to hell? |
|
|
| Spam |
What I mean by that, occrider, is that there's no guarantee that you're going to hell, because, while the Bible may claim it, it may not be true. Therefore it's up to the individual to decide whether or not the Bible is true.
Even if there IS a Heaven and Hell, you have to make the choice to do what is deemed necessary to avoid Hell, and get into Heaven. Millions, and billions of people through the ages have decided they believe in the Bible and Heaven and Hell and all that jazz, but have decided NOT to follow the commandments held within the Bible. And according to, and despite their belief, would then end up in hell, because they CHOSE not to follow through with what is asked of them in the Bible.
If the government takes your money and forces you to "give" it to the needy, you haven't given the needy a damn shiny penny, let alone earned a place in Heaven, you must make that decision freely, on your own, and of your own power. Since taxation is a forced amount of money that someone else decides what to do with, Jesus' command to "Give" your belongings to the poor couldn't possibly be a "liberal" entry in the Bible, as Liberal ideology would state that the government will take care of the poor and needy through taxation and public social programs, and the individual will likely feel like the burden of giving to the poor has been lifted from their shoulders because of it. |
|
|
CLICK TO RETURN TO TOP OF PAGE
tranceaddict Forums Archive > Other > Political Discussion / Debate
|
