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How Do YOU Sidechain? Especially in Ableton Live
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| kitphillips |
So I've never used sidechain much, I consider it a fairly lazy technique in most cases, except where you have a huge mix with heaps of channels.
But I've been thinking lately (as my projects get bigger and bigger) and I think I've come up with a way which may be of interest to people.
My Goal with all of this, was to create a channel consisting of a bunch of transient signals which would cause another group of channels (consisting of various strings and pads) to duck out of the mix a bit, leaving a bit more space. I especially wanted to duck the high end out a bit, but thats a matter for your actual compressor, not the routings themselves.
HOWTO
1/ Create a return channel and send your trigger signals to it (kicks, plucks, vocals etc) Call it TRIGGER
2/ create an audio channel and set its monitoring mode to "in" call it BUSS
3/ Get all your signals you want compressed and route them to BUSS
4/ Direct the output of TRIGGER to the sidechain input on your compressor, I'm using sonalksis compressor, probably will also apply it to their Automated EQ plugin at some stage.
ADVANTAGES
I know the traditional technique in Live was to create a duplicate channel of your kick drum (for example), and direct this at the compressors sidechain input. This Technique has advantages in the sense that you can use lots of triggers at once to trigger the sidechain, so you can use vocals AND kick and pluck. This is great because sometimes, you'll want different signals to trigger the sidechain at different parts of the mix (like you might want the kick doing it in a very pumpy part and vocals doing it in a smoother part)
It also has the advantage of not requiring an extra instance of your drum plugin running and not requiring more CPU, HD access etc.
Most interesting of all, you could put a modifier of some sort on the actual TRIGGER channel, to have infinite flexibility of EQs etc. So you could easily set up the trigger to only trigger when the signal is strong in the low end, or band reject it so its only when its strong in the lows and highs but not the middle etc. What if you put a delay here? Instant LFO I think?
So what do you guys think? Will it work? Is it better than the conventional way I mentioned?
How do you personally like to sidehain stuff? Do you have a better method?
I'm going to give this a try right now and will report back on results. Kindly remember that I'm basically just thinking aloud here, not wanting to turn this into a definitive how to, but I'd appreciate input.
Yes I also realise these routings sound like a certain picture once drawn by a certain forum member (cough, ********):tongue3 |
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| kitphillips |
OK first problem; I can't route the signal from TRIGGER to the sidechain input on the sonalksis compressor, I opened up lives new sidechain comp, and using that, you have to set the sidechain from within the compressor to use the signal from the TRIGGER. Slight difference but important.
Is the inability of live to route signals to the compressor a problem with live or a problem with the plug in? I seem to remember live CAN route signals to things like Vokator (NI Vocoder) and Reaktor? Or am I off mark?
To use the Sidechain input of the Live compressor, you need to use FF1 or FF2 mode, FB mode won't work. Watch the levels on the compressor, its output tends to clip.
Otherwise it seems to work, I'm going to continue experimenting, but opinions would be great. |
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| Vortex_SA |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
OK first problem; I can't route the signal from TRIGGER to the sidechain input on the sonalksis compressor, I opened up lives new sidechain comp, and using that, you have to set the sidechain from within the compressor to use the signal from the TRIGGER. Slight difference but important.
Is the inability of live to route signals to the compressor a problem with live or a problem with the plug in? I seem to remember live CAN route signals to things like Vokator (NI Vocoder) and Reaktor? Or am I off mark?
To use the Sidechain input of the Live compressor, you need to use FF1 or FF2 mode, FB mode won't work. Watch the levels on the compressor, its output tends to clip.
Otherwise it seems to work, I'm going to continue experimenting, but opinions would be great. |
turn off the makeup feature in the live compressor, also put a compression on the channel before sidechaining, gives a more steady output to sidechain... dunno about the sonalksis sidechaining i use live compressor its very good, i don't see why you want to put only one sidechain strip, you can use two, one for the kick, the other one (or two or three...) to whatever else comes to mind...
and are you producing on one screen and posting on the forums in the other? :) lol, just produce man use your imagination... you can also "sidechain" by modulation of knobs and stuff there is no better way... |
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| kitphillips |
What do you mean by sidechain strip exactly? Do you mean create more return channels and direct them at the compressor?
Nah, I wish I had more than one screen. I'm just messing around in live creating some interesting routings and posting about (probably almost incoherently) in excitement as I don't think I've seen a method of sidechaining before where you can use a group to compress another group with so much control.
Someone probably already posted it and I missed it, but hey, I'm excited:p |
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| Vortex_SA |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
What do you mean by sidechain strip exactly? Do you mean create more return channels and direct them at the compressor?
Nah, I wish I had more than one screen. I'm just messing around in live creating some interesting routings and posting about (probably almost incoherently) in excitement as I don't think I've seen a method of sidechaining before where you can use a group to compress another group with so much control.
Someone probably already posted it and I missed it, but hey, I'm excited:p |
huh? you can use the send channel muted as your main trigger and use send on eaach channel to affect the various sounds you want to sidechain... |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vortex_SA
huh? you can use the send channel muted as your main trigger and use send on eaach channel to affect the various sounds you want to sidechain... |
yeah! That was what I meant:D Is this the way you usually do it? |
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| Vortex_SA |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
yeah! That was what I meant:D Is this the way you usually do it? |
i dunno i just do stuff i dont keep track of what i did cos every track i end up doing something different from the previous one... if also here is a neat sounding thing i did once on a harder track of mine... all your stuff in need of kewl reverb sound, send them to a reverb channel (duh...) but on top of the reverb put a high ratio low attack medium release compression, and sidechain that to the kick... sounds like you going in and out from a giant space hall 140 times a minute :) |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vortex_SA
i dunno i just do stuff i dont keep track of what i did cos every track i end up doing something different from the previous one... if also here is a neat sounding thing i did once on a harder track of mine... all your stuff in need of kewl reverb sound, send them to a reverb channel (duh...) but on top of the reverb put a high ratio low attack medium release compression, and sidechain that to the kick... sounds like you going in and out from a giant space hall 140 times a minute :) |
Thats interesting, I usually re use the same routings over and over again because I like to focus on the music rather than the technical aspects of routing etc. Thats a good idea though, I'll give it a go some time, I know people often sidechain their delays to the original signal to duck them out but sidechaining FX it to the kick sounds good. Doing it with a chorus/flanger/phaser might be cool too.
I checked out your myspace man, your stuff is excellent;) |
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| Vortex_SA |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
Thats interesting, I usually re use the same routings over and over again because I like to focus on the music rather than the technical aspects of routing etc. Thats a good idea though, I'll give it a go some time, I know people often sidechain their delays to the original signal to duck them out but sidechaining FX it to the kick sounds good. Doing it with a chorus/flanger/phaser might be cool too.
I checked out your myspace man, your stuff is excellent;) |
thank you very much mate, i appreciate it :)
anyway through my eyes the sound design and technical aspects are a big part of the music, a big part of composing to me is finding the "right" sound for the piece and effects if not done musically in my eyes are kinda lame :) |
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| Cetra³ |
Yeah,
I put up the send of the kick to a bus and route that to the sidechain channel of otiumfx compadre (channel 3/4). that compressor lives on an audio track and each track i want to compress i point to that one rather than the master.
I thought that was how everyone did it? |
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| iammesol |
| Are you not using Ableton 7? |
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| kitphillips |
Yeah I am using ableton 7, is there another way to do it?
I'd seen around some people's ideas that you should duplicate the trigger channel and do all sort of strange stuff to it, but maybe that no longer applies. I hadn't seen anyone using sends to do it before, but maybe I'm just out of the loop? Anyway, does anyone have any other interesting ideas for sidechained effects? |
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