i get what progressive house is, but not really trusting wikipedia or iskur at all i was wondering what people mean by prog-trance.
im not wanting to start some conversation about genreifications like the deep/tech thread, just useful to know what it means when i see the term
thanks
DJLafleur
I would say progressive trance is M.I.K.E.,Hes one of the best producers around period.
Darkarbiter
Progressive trance isn't very good. Does this answer your question?
SYSTEM-J
Originally a new style of trance that emerged in the mid-1990s which was more modern than the classic German style and different from the goa trance popular at the time. It was influenced by the British progressive house sound, specifically the short-lived epic house movement in 1995-96. Epic house is the bridge between old school prog house and prog trance. You can see this by tracking the sound of Sasha and Digweed in the mid-90s: they were playing Renaissance style prog-house in 92-94, in 95-96 it was epic house and afterwards it was progressive trance. People like BT, Quivver, Tilt and Blue Amazon who made their names in epic house also helped define progressive trance in the late 90s.
It sounded like a cross between classic German trance and mid-90s prog house. It was better produced and more melodic than classic trance, but shorter and less maximalist than epic house. The Platipus label are often credited with originating it.
At the turn of the millenium it became deeper, darker and less melodic: the Twilo sound epitomised by the likes of Breeder, Sander Kleinenberg and Tilt (and of course, Xpander and Heaven Scent). Then people started making it smoother and more twinkly: first Above & Beyond and then Markus Schulz and Andy Moor. It ceased to be much like it used to be and basically became a twinkly, moodier version of all the other trance around. That was about 2004. Since then it's been .
Of course, there are exceptions to this general development of sound. Underworld's Dark Train mix of Dark & Long, for example, was made in 1994 and yet was so far ahead of its time it was still in the box of every prog trance DJ at the end of the decade and beyond.
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Originally a new style of trance that emerged in the mid-1990s which was more modern than the classic German style and different from the goa trance popular at the time. It was influenced by the British progressive house sound, specifically the short-lived epic house movement in 1995-96. Epic house is the bridge between old school prog house and prog trance. You can see this by tracking the sound of Sasha and Digweed in the mid-90s: they were playing Renaissance style prog-house in 92-94, in 95-96 it was epic house and afterwards it was progressive trance. People like BT, Quivver, Tilt and Blue Amazon who made their names in epic house also helped define progressive trance in the late 90s.
It sounded like a cross between classic German trance and mid-90s prog house. It was better produced and more melodic than classic trance, but shorter and less maximalist than epic house.
At the turn of the millenium it became deeper, darker and less melodic: the Twilo sound epitomised by the likes of Breeder, Sander Kleinenberg and Tilt (and of course, Xpander and Heaven Scent). Then people started making it smoother and more twinkly: first Above & Beyond and then Markus Schulz and Andy Moor. It ceased to be much like it used to be and basically became a twinkly, moodier version of all the other trance around. That was about 2004. Since then it's been .
Nice summary
Cobalt
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Originally a new style of trance that emerged in the mid-1990s which was more modern than the classic German style and different from the goa trance popular at the time. It was influenced by the British progressive house sound, specifically the short-lived epic house movement in 1995-96. Epic house is the bridge between old school prog house and prog trance. You can see this by tracking the sound of Sasha and Digweed in the mid-90s: they were playing Renaissance style prog-house in 92-94, in 95-96 it was epic house and afterwards it was progressive trance. People like BT, Quivver, Tilt and Blue Amazon who made their names in epic house also helped define progressive trance in the late 90s.
It sounded like a cross between classic German trance and mid-90s prog house. It was better produced and more melodic than classic trance, but shorter and less maximalist than epic house. The Platipus label are often credited with originating it.
At the turn of the millenium it became deeper, darker and less melodic: the Twilo sound epitomised by the likes of Breeder, Sander Kleinenberg and Tilt (and of course, Xpander and Heaven Scent). Then people started making it smoother and more twinkly: first Above & Beyond and then Markus Schulz and Andy Moor. It ceased to be much like it used to be and basically became a twinkly, moodier version of all the other trance around. That was about 2004. Since then it's been .
Of course, there are exceptions to this general development of sound. Underworld's Dark Train mix of Dark & Long, for example, was made in 1994 and yet was so far ahead of its time it was still in the box of every prog trance DJ at the end of the decade and beyond.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
The Schulzifying of progressive trance, of course, was catalyzed by its abandonment by progressive elites circa 2002. The increasing reek of Dutch trance drove all good producers into moody progressive house territory, leaving the ruins of progressive trance open to Armada invasion. Anything labeled progressive trance from 2004 or later is little more than tragic reminder of their coup.
PS: I'm waiting for Jack's Top 50 Classic Progressive and Epic House Tracks.
Ishkur
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Originally a new style of trance that emerged in the mid-1990s which was more modern than the classic German style and different from the goa trance popular at the time. It was influenced by the British progressive house sound, specifically the short-lived epic house movement in 1995-96. Epic house is the bridge between old school prog house and prog trance. You can see this by tracking the sound of Sasha and Digweed in the mid-90s: they were playing Renaissance style prog-house in 92-94, in 95-96 it was epic house and afterwards it was progressive trance. People like BT, Quivver, Tilt and Blue Amazon who made their names in epic house also helped define progressive trance in the late 90s.
It sounded like a cross between classic German trance and mid-90s prog house. It was better produced and more melodic than classic trance, but shorter and less maximalist than epic house. The Platipus label are often credited with originating it.
At the turn of the millenium it became deeper, darker and less melodic: the Twilo sound epitomised by the likes of Breeder, Sander Kleinenberg and Tilt (and of course, Xpander and Heaven Scent). Then people started making it smoother and more twinkly: first Above & Beyond and then Markus Schulz and Andy Moor. It ceased to be much like it used to be and basically became a twinkly, moodier version of all the other trance around. That was about 2004. Since then it's been .
Of course, there are exceptions to this general development of sound. Underworld's Dark Train mix of Dark & Long, for example, was made in 1994 and yet was so far ahead of its time it was still in the box of every prog trance DJ at the end of the decade and beyond.
You started off fine, but you veeered way off course.
Progressive trance came from the UK, yes. It was mostly spearheaded by Platipus, Hooj Tunes, Aquarius and to a lesser extent Perfecto and Flying Rhino, it was a more melodic and accessible yin to the fast-paced, acidic weirdness coming out of Germany at the time. Progressive trance tracks would be the mid to late 90s output by Matt Darey (Lost Tribe - Gamemaster is the quintessential example of the genre), Union Jack/Art of Trance (legend purports Two Full Moons and a Trout being the first progressive trance track), and any of Underworld's 90s output (Rez, Cowgirl, Thing in a Book is more representative than any of the other Dark Train mixes).
The last great progressive trance track was Binary Finary - 1998. The original. In its remixes, you can literally chart the gradual drift of popular trance music from progressive trance, to anthem trance, to dutch disney clown cheese trance.
Progressive trance did not have vocals, which distinguished it fairly neatly from progressive house or any kind of house at the time, which had them in abundance. If it did, they weren't lyrics or sung in any capacity, but rather reverbed samples or spoken word.
Contrary to popular belief, progressive trance did not morph into progressive. Progressive house became progressive. Progressive trance became more anthemic and popified which led to trance's explosion at the end of the millenium, which is pretty much the reason why you are all here now having this conversation. The only real similarities between progressive house and progressive trance is the namesake. And epic house does not exist.
Progressive trance was anthemic, but it did not have anthems, per se. What I mean by that is it had fairly memorable, uplifting melodies, but they were meant to be component parts of an interesting swirl of music, not standing out as the only part that mattered in the track, as latter day trance decided to do. In most progressive trance, the anthem would just kick in unannounced, almost as an afterthought. The concept of bringing the entire song to an absolute standstill for a minute or so, and then bringing it all back with a massive snare roll and huge, blaring saw chords, was an invention purely of its demon-spawn progeny, Anthem Trance.
Anthem trance basically took what was just a cute little gimmick in the progressive trance palette, and amplified it to cartoonish extremes.
Cobalt
quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
Contrary to popular belief, progressive trance did not morph into progressive. Progressive house became progressive. Progressive trance became more anthemic and popified which led to trance's explosion at the end of the millenium, which is pretty much the reason why you are all here now having this conversation. The only real similarities between progressive house and progressive trance is the namesake. And epic house does not exist.
You're needlessly splitting hairs. Both of you are right in respects.
You're correct that epic house was just progressive house. Epic house was a less common term of use, but it was occasionally employed to distinguish the cumulative, emotional, piano-laden builds adopted by progressive house between 1995-97, in contrast to the muscular, straight-ahead hypnotics of 1992-94. Although "progressive house" was the genre proper, it's useful to call the 1995-97 style "epic house" in discussion, especially when some of its producers accepted the term (e.g. BT, Blue Amazon).
You're also correct that progressive trance did not directly evolve from epic house, but instead found its earliest roots in trippy acid trance out of Platipus.
But I think you're wrong to draw a sharp line between them, especially past 1997, when they blended indistinguishably. Through 2000, progressive house and progressive trance formed a continuous spectrum. Use of one label versus the other was mostly dependent on the desired pose, since everyone played from the same pool. You'd have a hard time picking through, say, Budapest and telling me which tracks go into which pile. Even if we decide to be so picky, there are too many productions that resist either label, such as Breeder - The Chain.
You're one of few people I've encountered who describe Matt Darey's Euphoria-era output as progressive trance. I don't recall anyone calling his 1999 work "progressive". He followed Oakenfold and company in 1997-98 when anthem trance took off for superclubs and stadiums, embracing the solo "trance" label. Gamemaster is representative of this transition, actually, much like Armin - Blue Fear. Anthem trance was a branch from progressive trance, not its evolution.
Moreover, there are some important productions that complicate your progressive house / progressive trance division earlier than 1997. Most people would consider Li Kwan - Point Zero to be progressive trance -- Darey before he diverged from the genre -- but it was originally released on Deconstruction. Anomaly - Calling Your Name is considered a progressive house classic, but it was quickly picked up by Platipus.
We could say that progressive house and progressive trance forked away from each other during the 2002-era slow-down, spearheaded by Sasha and Digweed. But it's more appropriate, I think, to say that progressive elites abandoned the style to Andy Moor opportunists, in order to recapture a diluted progressive house aesthetic. Ironically, the vanguard would chuck out progressive house two or three years later.
CHRles
What really happened was that by 97 everyone and their mother started to say they were spinning and producing progressive. Hell, you had releases by the likes of Brooklyn Bounce out of Germany having chart success on the Pop charts with a song called "The Theme (To Progressive Attack)" http://youtube.com/watch?v=MC0O_1BSJEs&feature=related
Not exactly progressive, now is it? But it did take a lot of elements from the Frankfurt and London scenes, added commercial elements, and packaged it as a progressive song.
And where did Brooklyn Bounce pick up on those uplifting synth sounds that it had mistaken for Progressive? Why from Faithless of course. Most people in Europe really started to take notice of the Progressive scene when Faithless released "Salva Mea", and a bit later on with "Insomnia" - music critics labeled them as Progressive House. http://youtube.com/watch?v=l7cY0YT3G8A&feature=related
IpLaYWiTLiGhTs
quote:
Originally posted by DJLafleur
I would say progressive trance is M.I.K.E
no.
Alien Yoshi
Listen to the mindblowing album "Airwave - I Want To Believe" and you will hear what is progressive trance. Unique journey thru trance music.
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
You started off fine, but you veeered way off course.
Progressive trance came from the UK, yes. It was mostly spearheaded by Platipus, Hooj Tunes, Aquarius and to a lesser extent Perfecto and Flying Rhino, it was a more melodic and accessible yin to the fast-paced, acidic weirdness coming out of Germany at the time. Progressive trance tracks would be the mid to late 90s output by Matt Darey (Lost Tribe - Gamemaster is the quintessential example of the genre), Union Jack/Art of Trance (legend purports Two Full Moons and a Trout being the first progressive trance track), and any of Underworld's 90s output (Rez, Cowgirl, Thing in a Book is more representative than any of the other Dark Train mixes).
The last great progressive trance track was Binary Finary - 1998. The original. In its remixes, you can literally chart the gradual drift of popular trance music from progressive trance, to anthem trance, to dutch disney clown cheese trance.
Progressive trance did not have vocals, which distinguished it fairly neatly from progressive house or any kind of house at the time, which had them in abundance. If it did, they weren't lyrics or sung in any capacity, but rather reverbed samples or spoken word.
Contrary to popular belief, progressive trance did not morph into progressive. Progressive house became progressive. Progressive trance became more anthemic and popified which led to trance's explosion at the end of the millenium, which is pretty much the reason why you are all here now having this conversation. The only real similarities between progressive house and progressive trance is the namesake. And epic house does not exist.
Progressive trance was anthemic, but it did not have anthems, per se. What I mean by that is it had fairly memorable, uplifting melodies, but they were meant to be component parts of an interesting swirl of music, not standing out as the only part that mattered in the track, as latter day trance decided to do. In most progressive trance, the anthem would just kick in unannounced, almost as an afterthought. The concept of bringing the entire song to an absolute standstill for a minute or so, and then bringing it all back with a massive snare roll and huge, blaring saw chords, was an invention purely of its demon-spawn progeny, Anthem Trance.
Anthem trance basically took what was just a cute little gimmick in the progressive trance palette, and amplified it to cartoonish extremes.
There are some "grey" areas though that one canno't tell in which genre one tune belongs. For example this tune:
Coloured Vision - "Violet Rain" (1993).
Would you call this tune "classic" or "progressive" trance? Chronically speaking it could belong to the "classic" genre since it came out in 1993, but IMO the structure (which contains extended melodic arpeggiation and proto-anthemic melody) dwells in the "progressive" area (well, actually 1993 could be the year that the first "progressive" tracks appeared?).
Also, i don't thing that "progressive" was first produced in the U.K. but that it was mainly a product of Germany as well (in the same way that classic trance was). Progressive trance could be influenced by early-90s British Progressive house but IMO the first "progressive" elements in trance could be seen in the stuff released from the "Eye-Q" label, and that even classic trance tracks released by LSG (e.g.Fragile), Cygnus-X (e.g.Superstring), Brainchild (e.g.Symmetry), Vernon (e.g.Wonderland) definitely had the proto-progressive structure. I thing that the so-called "epic house" was influenced by this German proto-progressive, proto-anthemic trance rather then influencing it.
Brainchild- "Symmetry (C)" (1994, don't pay attention to 1995 its wrong.AMAZING tune by the way.)
