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Hip Hop sucks. (pg. 9)
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by richg101
'ill be missing you' by that c.u.n.t puff daddy. he raped an amazingly catchy bassline from a superb original track and ruined it with his stupid siverspoon fed bull contribution.
one more thing! - R+B stands for rhythmn and blues, Not rhythmn and bass! |
I have to agree with you there Rich, that track was an abomination of nature. But then everything that P-Diddy or whatever the f*ck he calls himself these days is lame beyond belief and a testament to the fact that music can sell really well. But he is just a rapper and has nothing to do with Hip Hop in the true sense.
I do have to disagree with you though on the fact that Hip Hop produces great music out of other peoples hits. The actual truth is that some of the most talented Hip Hop producers will actually take a mediocre to totally crap track that happens to have one 24 carrat riff and create something worth listening to.
The likes of P-Diddy actually cheapen that skill by taking already well known stuff, where as the more serious people actually pride themselves on plucking tracks out of obscurity and making it a dancefloor bomb (if you like that sort of vibe).
The whole genre allowed James Brown to make one almighty come back largely thanks to the use of samples... and I know you heard 'The Funky Drummer' even if you don't know it by name.
Generally...
But I do think that to fully understand it in it's essence you kind of had to be around when it made its first big impression globally. Back in 81 I did my first bit of Breakin', did my first tag around that time, never really got into rapping as I hate the sound of my own voice too much, but by 1985 I was spinning records and I owe my trip through dance music totally to Hip Hop.
But on the same count, it's that experience that makes me think that Hip Hop today has totally lost it.
The attitude to women didn't really start creeping in till around the late 80s early 90s on a major scale largely thanks to West Coast Gangsta Rap.
East Coast Rap was for a long time still about the improvement and educating the inner city black man where as West Coast Rap had a more sinister message that disguised itself as 'telling it like it is' when in actual fact it was more a case of, I want to make people think that I'm hard. Sure some people walked the walk and talked the talk and now they are dead or in jail. West Coast rap is in my mind one of the worst things that happened to Hip Hop but even there you have had some classic music.
Then ofcourse Miami had the 2 Live Crew which in actually fact was totally infantile but quite funny at the time which spawned the whole Miami Bass Sound scene.
Somebody asked if the Beastie Boys are considered Hip Hop... sure, check out License to Ill and that should answer your question. They cross over into other genres which is only healthy if you ask me but in essence yes they are and still carry some of that old and I mean really old school feel to it.
People also made a reference to Hip House... another abomination especially when it was cheesy house music with a Rap. But if you want to hear something that actually works and is pretty good check out Twin Hype - For those who like to groove, Quality Bassline.
People should try and get out of this black and white view of the world and I'm not talking about race, I mean about everything... As producers go, people who produce Trance can be bloody snobby and with no good reason, just listen and learn. I have learned far more about writing a good bassline by listening to dub, Metal and Reggae then I ever did from listening to Trance. Even if you don't like a genre, they all have something that they do particularly well. If you don't like the sound then listen with a technical ear, you may be inspired... Can't remember who said it or exactly how but ignorance is the death of reason.
Cheers
Nem |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Not sure I understand your point, here. Could you provide some more clarification? |
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
I have to agree with you there Rich, that track was an abomination of nature. But then everything that P-Diddy or whatever the f*ck he calls himself these days is lame beyond belief and a testament to the fact that music can sell really well. But he is just a rapper and has nothing to do with Hip Hop in the true sense.
I do have to disagree with you though on the fact that Hip Hop that some of the most talented Hip Hop producers will actually take a mediocre to totally crap track that happens to have one 24 carrat riff and create something worth listening to.
The likes of P-Diddy actually cheapen that skill by taking already well known stuff, where as the more serious people actually pride themselves on plucking tracks out of obscurity and making it a produces great music out of other peoples hits. The actual truth is dancefloor bomb (if you like that sort of vibe).
The whole genre allowed James Brown to make one almighty come back largely thanks to the use of samples... and I know you heard 'The Funky Drummer' even if you don't know it by name.
Generally...
But I do think that to fully understand it in it's essence you kind of had to be around when it made its first big impression globally. Back in 81 I did my first bit of Breakin', did my first tag around that time, never really got into rapping as I hate the sound of my own voice too much, but by 1985 I was spinning records and I owe my trip through dance music totally to Hip Hop.
But on the same count, it's that experience that makes me think that Hip Hop today has totally lost it.
The attitude to women didn't really start creeping in till around the late 80s early 90s on a major scale largely thanks to West Coast Gangsta Rap.
East Coast Rap was for a long time still about the improvement and educating the inner city black man where as West Coast Rap had a more sinister message that disguised itself as 'telling it like it is' when in actual fact it was more a case of, I want to make people think that I'm hard. Sure some people walked the walk and talked the talk and now they are dead or in jail. West Coast rap is in my mind one of the worst things that happened to Hip Hop but even there you have had some classic music.
Then ofcourse Miami had the 2 Live Crew which in actually fact was totally infantile but quite funny at the time which spawned the whole Miami Bass Sound scene.
Somebody asked if the Beastie Boys are considered Hip Hop... sure, check out License to Ill and that should answer your question. They cross over into other genres which is only healthy if you ask me but in essence yes they are and still carry some of that old and I mean really old school feel to it.
People also made a reference to Hip House... another abomination especially when it was cheesy house music with a Rap. But if you want to hear something that actually works and is pretty good check out Twin Hype - For those who like to groove, Quality Bassline.
People should try and get out of this black and white view of the world and I'm not talking about race, I mean about everything... As producers go, people who produce Trance can be bloody snobby and with no good reason, just listen and learn. I have learned far more about writing a good bassline by listening to dub, Metal and Reggae then I ever did from listening to Trance. Even if you don't like a genre, they all have something that they do particularly well. If you don't like the sound then listen with a technical ear, you may be inspired... Can't remember who said it or exactly how but ignorance is the death of reason.
Cheers
Nem |
Puffy is mainly a producer, not a rapper. I don't see how that song is a "testament to the fact that music can sell really well", unless you consider the police version that too. The puffy version is the exact same thing with a fatter beat.. |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
Puffy is mainly a producer, not a rapper. |
And your point is what? :)
Does that make it ok that his rap performances in his tracks are lackluster? Should we part with our hard earned cash to feed this mans ego safe in the knowledge that we know it's ok to buy a track because we know that he is actually better than this at something else?
I guess it is all a matter of opinion when it comes down to it.
Nem |
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| JFCTTY |
since you are mostlikely already on BEATPORT...go to the hip hop section and browse some of the top tracks, a variety of good hip hop music (i'm not saying its ALL good)
If you can't tell the difference between (many of) those tracks and '50, Souljaboy, and so on ...then you must be hammering DJ Sammy at your trance gig. |
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| phantom limb |
Puff Daddy is really more of an entrepreneur than anything else. Yes, he definitely took some great 70s and 80s songs and sampled them into something relatively similar to the original with some rap vocals over it, but he's a smart guy in most respects. He created his own clothing line, "Sean John" and had his own show on MTV for a while even though it was a horrific piece of programming. Plus, it is argued by some that he "came up" with the idea of remixing; although, I would argue differently.
Really, this is all about preference and essentially, what sort of generation we are all a part of because it affects how much we "respect" a certain piece of music. Back to The Police with "Every breath you take," those of you, who grew up while The Police were popular will take more offense to Puff Daddy's use of the song than those of us in the younger generations, who probably did not realize that Puff Daddy "copied" the song until he performed that time on the VMAs.
All in all, The Police surely benefited from the royalties, when Puff Daddy basically made his version of the song popular. Plus, when you think about it, Puffy profited off of one of his best artist's/friend's death! Just to put it out there, I think the original with The Police was by far, much better. |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by phantom limb
Puff Daddy is really more of an entrepreneur than anything else. Yes, he definitely took some great 70s and 80s songs and sampled them into something relatively similar to the original with some rap vocals over it, but he's a smart guy in most respects. He created his own clothing line, "Sean John" and had his own show on MTV for a while even though it was a horrific piece of programming. Plus, it is argued by some that he "came up" with the idea of remixing; although, I would argue differently.
Really, this is all about preference and essentially, what sort of generation we are all a part of because it affects how much we "respect" a certain piece of music. Back to The Police with "Every breath you take," those of you, who grew up while The Police were popular will take more offense to Puff Daddy's use of the song than those of us in the younger generations, who probably did not realize that Puff Daddy "copied" the song until he performed that time on the VMAs.
All in all, The Police surely benefited from the royalties, when Puff Daddy basically made his version of the song popular. Plus, when you think about it, Puffy profited off of one of his best artist's/friend's death! Just to put it out there, I think the original with The Police was by far, much better. |
Well put.
Although I would definately argue the point regarding him coming up with remixing, and could probably back it up if I had to. No way did he come up with remixing. The man is two years older than me and I heard my first remix long before I ever heard of him. I guess that's one of those urban legends just like the one 'who actualy invented the term Hip Hop'.
I also think the original by the police is far superior, but then I'm an oldie.
Probably spent way too much time arguing the virtues of a style of music I got bored of long ago. Oh well...
Cheers
Nem |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
Puffy is mainly a producer, not a rapper. I don't see how that song is a "testament to the fact that music can sell really well", unless you consider the police version that too. The puffy version is the exact same thing with a fatter beat.. |
I hate to say it but they are not the same song in any way shape or form other than the fact that the main riff was sampled and given a beat and then looped, nothing wrong in that I grant you. The original has a far more interesting structure and Stings voice is far more expressive, but as you have clearly stated and I accept your point, he is I suppose a producer and not a rapper by trade.
At the end of the day though, this is pop music not Hip Hop.
Seeing as we have found something we don't agree on, lets find something we do... how about breasts, they are always good. ;)
Cheers
Nem |
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| flutlicht junky |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
That song is sad tho. R.I.P. Biggie.
Sting performed with Puffy live at the VMA's one year. I can't find it though. |
But the original song is about an obsessed stalker, not very sad??? |
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| phantom limb |
| Overall, I think this thread has seen the light and needs to die. There are always pros and cons to every side just like there are narrow- and open-minded individuals. WE are really getting nowhere with this... |
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | Originally posted by flutlicht junky
But the original song is about an obsessed stalker, not very sad??? |
not really theyre fake lyrics about a made up situation anyway. |
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