|
Growing violence by Muslim immigrants in Europe
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Magnetonium |
Sigh ... this is so sad. First, the massive riots in France, Denmark over some criminals who died of their own fault. Now the "annual" riots and violence against innocent people at the hands of violent immigrant Muslim youth in Belgium, Netherlands, Germany.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archiv...acked_after.php
| quote: |
Police station attacked after shooting
Tuesday 16 October 2007
A group of 20 to 30 youths threw stones at a police station and set a car on fire in the Amsterdam district of Slotervaart late on Monday evening, despite appeals for calm from community leaders.
The disturbances followed the fatal shooting of a man inside the station after he attacked two police officers with a knife.
Order was restored around midnight with no casualities and no arrests but the police presence in Slotervaart has been stepped up, says the Volkskrant.
Bilal B, a 22-year-old Amsterdammer of Moroccan origin, stabbed two police officers on Sunday before being shot dead. He had spent time in jail for a string of violent offences, had had contact with the so-called Hofstad terrorist group and psychiatric problems.
More details have since emerged about B's past. The Volkskrant reports that he was sent to the Valerius psychiatric clinic in April 2007, but was released in August. Last Friday he returned to the clinic saying he felt suicidal.
Police are now considering the possibility that the aim of his attack on the police officers was to be shot dead, according to Monday's Telegraaf. This phenomenon is known in America as 'suicide by cop'.
Meanwhile his family has let it be known they blame the clinic for his death. In a statement to NOS tv news they say Bilal B was a schizophrenic and heard voices in his head. He should not have been allowed to leave the clinic, says the family.
The Telegraaf claims that his links with the Hofstad group are deeper than previously admitted. It says he was visited in jail in 2003 by Mohammed Bouyeri, the man convicted of killing film maker Theo van Gogh. And his brother Abdullah was one of a 'hard core' group of youths who were investigated for planning attacks in 2005, the paper says.
|
Why is it that so many Muslim immigrants who migrate to better living countries in Europe only to become so suicidal, no offense? I am tired of reading so many articles about Muslim immigrant violence in Europe, I know Muslims are better than that. In North America they dont move in and live off welfare and refuse to learn the language! Seriously, they dont expect the government to build their lives, force them to go to school, get jobs, and drop their religious fundamentalism and become normal citizens?
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1384
| quote: |
Third Night of Ramadan Rioting in Capital of Europe
It looks as if immigrants youths want to turn nightly rioting during the Islamic holy month of ramadan into an annual tradition. Around 8:30pm last night violence erupted again in Brussels, the capital of Europe. The riots centered on the Brussels Marollen quarter and the area near the Midi Train Station, where the international trains from London and Paris arrive. Youths threw stones at passing people and cars, windows of parked cars were smashed, bus shelters were demolished, cars were set ablaze, a youth club was arsoned and a shop was looted. Two molotov cocktails were thrown into St.Peter’s hospital, one of the main hospitals of central Brussels. The fire brigade was able to extinguish the fires at the hospital, but youths managed to steal the keys of the fire engine.
During the month of ramadan Muslims are required to fast during the day and are only allowed to eat after sunset. As Esther pointed out “What should be noticed about the riots is that they start after sunset. Besides the fact that they start after dark, it also gives the rioters enough time to break their fast and enjoy the traditional family meal. Sunset is around 7:30pm.” Tuesday’s and Monday’s riots began around 8:30pm.
Last night the police arrested 45 rioters. One of them will be prosecuted for assaulting the owner of a shop. Philippe Close, the chef de cabinet of the Mayor of Brussels, Freddy Thielemans, said that the authorities would continue their efforts to defuse the situation in a peaceful manner, but he announced that the police will be less complacent in future, “since we cannot tolerate that this [Marollen] neighbourhood falls victim to a problem from outside the neighbourhood.”
The immigrant youths claim that they are upset by the death of Fayçal Chaaban, a 25-year old criminal, in a Brussels prison last Sunday. Yesterday morning the authorities announced they would hold a meeting with the youths to hear their grievances about security in prison, but the meeting, which was due last night, could not take place because of the riots.
The authorities are especially nervous since the Belgian municipal elections are being held on Sunday October 8th. It is likely that the elections will be won by anti-immigrant, “islamophobic” parties. Since ramadan will not be over on October 8th and many immigrants might perceive a victory of the indigenous right (as opposed to their own far-right) as an insult, Muslim indignation over the election results in major cities may spark serious disturbances. According to a poll published today the Vlaams Belang party is set to win 38.6% of the vote in Antwerp (compared to 33,0% in the previous municipal elections six years ago).
|
And then the Belgian immigrants claim discrimination for anti-immigrant "islamophobic" parties coming to power? Seriously ... they should be happy they have an opportunity to build happy and prosperous lives that they couldn't back in their holes in Morocco, Turkey, etc. How is violence suppose to win public sympathy for these people's demand for more attention? Grievances my ass.
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2588
| quote: |
Turks Set Cars Alight in Brussels
From the desk of Paul Belien on Wed, 2007-10-24 23:21
Tonight (Wednesday evening) heavy rioting erupted in Turkish quarters of Brussels, the capital of Belgium. Buses and trams were attacked. Several cars were torched and shops destroyed. Police forces were unable to restore law and order in the boroughs of Sint-Joost-ten-Node and Schaarbeek where since last Sunday the animosity among Turks is running high. Turkish flags are omnipresent. In some streets the Turkish crescent and star adorns almost every house.
The Turks’ anger was provoked by rising tension with Kurds along the Iraqi-Turkish border and by the debate in the American Congress about the Turkish genocide of the Armenians in 1915. On Sunday night Turkish youths in Sint-Joost destroyed the pub of Peter Petrossian, an ethnic Armenian who had to flee for his life. Apparently, some Turks think that by attacking the Armenians in Brussels they can convince the world that the Turks never committed a genocide of the Armenians.
Tonight the youths attacked Kurdish shops. They also set fire to several cars.
Belgium’s Muslim population consists mainly of Moroccans and Turks. In the past rioting Muslim youths were mostly Moroccans. The Turkish community is controlled by the Turkish embassy. The latter used to restrain the Turkish population so as not to upset the Belgian authorities and thwart Turkey’s chances of EU admission. This policy seems to have changed recently. In Antwerp, too, Turkish youths demonstrated tonight.
The events in Brussels indicate that in admitting large numbers of immigrants Belgium has also imported the ethnic quarrels of the Middle East.
Meanwhile in Amsterdam, the capital of the Netherlands, Moroccan youths have been burning cars for more than a week now. Today a 15-year old Amsterdam schoolboy was stabbed by youths. The boy survived the attack but is seriously wounded. On 11 October a 16-year old Amsterdam boy was stabbed to death in school. On 4 September a similar incident occurred in the Belgian city of Ghent where a 14-year old Belgian boy fought for his life after being stabbed in the throat by two immigrant youths from his school.
|
Fukkk ... Jesus Christ, seriously, these Belgian and Dutch Turks and Moroccans, if they're so unhappy living in prosperous EU where the opportunities are endless, they should pick up their asses and move back to their prosperous holes back in Morocco and Turkey. I'll even chip in a few dollars as an act of generousity to cover their air expenses.
Turkish flags everywhere??? Mannn, its Belgium, they should be waving Belgian flags everywhere, like at my house there's a CANADIAN flag. These people clearly have no respect for the country they live in - and Belgium and its Kurdish and Armenian populations are not connected and not at fault in any way with the situation around Turkey right now. Idiots.
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425822/1415902
| quote: |
Over 100 youths of Turkish origin were arrested in Brussels after clashing with Belgian police during a banned anti-Kurdish demonstration, a local authority spokesman said.
Tensions have been running high in some immigrant Turkish communities in Belgium after 12 Turkish soldiers were killed earlier this month in an attack by Kurdish PKK rebels based in northern Iraq.
Pierre Bruylandt, a spokesman for the mayor of Saint Josse-ten-Noode, where the violence took place, said the youths were detained after destroying cars, bus stops and garbage bins.
A number of the youths were armed with metal rods and had concealed their faces with hoods and scarves, Bruylandt said, adding he had witnessed the violence himself.
"They demonstrated following the clashes at the Turkish-Iraqi border," said Bruylandt.
He said the demonstrators had no permit to hold the protest.
Saint Josse-ten-Noode is a district of Brussels which is home to a large Turkish community.
Turkey's parliament has authorised the military to carry out a major cross-border incursion against Kurdish militants after the surge in guerrilla attacks on Turkish soil.
"This is exporting Turkey's problems to Belgium...It is as if one were demonstrating in favour of Belgian unity in Turkey," Bruylandt commented.
Saint Josse-ten-Noode was also the scene recently of clashes between the Turkish and Armenian communities after a committee of the US congress voted to call the 1915 massacre of Armenians by Ottoman Turks genocide.
|
Sigh ... stupidity is simply amazing. And this violence has gripped other countries in Europe like Germany. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| for once me and magnetonium are in complete agreement. sounds like a good number of people need a good dose of the police taser. sometimes violence is the only thing some people understand. |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Why is it that so many Muslim immigrants who migrate to better living countries in Europe only to become so suicidal, no offense? I am tired of reading so many articles about Muslim immigrant violence in Europe, I know Muslims are better than that. In North America they dont move in and live off welfare and refuse to learn the language! Seriously, they dont expect the government to build their lives, force them to go to school, get jobs, and drop their religious fundamentalism and become normal citizens?
|
Dood, do you live in Toronto or not?
We have TONS of them but happily they don't seem to be as....well...screwball as their European brethren.
I'm not sure if it's the fact that they know the Canadian government will bounce their ass if they do, or that they're happy with the local politicians bending over backwards for them to secure their own votes in those high immigrant political wards... |
|
|
| Lebezniatnikov |
| I can't comment on The Netherlands or Belgium, but to be fair, the Turkish population in Germany is often treated like . It's been a huge societal issue for the last 10 years. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| being "treated like " is grounds for lawsuits or protests, NOT illegal civil unrest that leads to senseless violence and damage to property. |
|
|
| nchs09 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
being "treated like " is grounds for lawsuits or protests, NOT illegal civil unrest that leads to senseless violence and damage to property. |
one can only take so much no? |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I can't comment on The Netherlands or Belgium, but to be fair, the Turkish population in Germany is often treated like . It's been a huge societal issue for the last 10 years. |
You know what's sad? In Germany, many Turks DONT EVEN SPEAK GERMAN for Christ's sakes! So despite the fact that immigrants are not treated well in Germany, if you dont know German, well then, thats just plain bad.
I watched a good program on Russian television some time back about some Turkish families who lives in Germany on welfare for over 10 years and they still dont speak German. After that, I wasnt surprised at all for poor treatment of immigrants in Germany.
EDIT: But treatment and tolerance against immigrants in Germany is very poor, mainly against the Muslim immigrants and Asians. They have been having a rise in anti-Semitism as well. |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
Hell, I know Italians/Greeks here in Toronto who don't speak a word of English after living here OVER 30 YEARS and somehow they still find a living.
Their world must be pretty small but they manage without freaking out, burning cars and harassing police...:rolleyes: |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Hell, I know Italians/Greeks here in Toronto who don't speak a word of English after living here OVER 30 YEARS and somehow they still find a living.
Their world must be pretty small but they manage without freaking out, burning cars and harassing police...:rolleyes: |
True ... also, you'll never see Russians rioting like that ever. And I do speak English pretty dam well ;-) and proud of it. I became a citizen just 5 years ago.
Its sad that it turns out that its the native populations job and duty to make friends and try as hard as they can to integrate these immigrant communities into their culture. Its clearly should be the other way around. I am just happy to live here in Canada, I learned and integrated into the Canadian society quite well, I think. You wont hear me crying for not trying to adapt and change to fit in and be a productive member of Canadian society.
Ask yourself this important question - how come immigrants from other countries like Russia, Ukraine, China, eastern bloc dont do such violent acts? WHY its just Muslim immigrants in Europe that do this? Is it really a coincidence? Its pretty dam obvious that unlike the Muslim immigrants, who appear to sit in their subsidized poor districts and hope for government to do something about them, other immigrants from Eastern Europe, for example, work their asses off to get high education, very good jobs, and secure future for their families - they adapt, they change, they do whatever it takes to secure happy lives.
Is it really fair for me to blame religion for Muslim's struggles in Europe? To me it appears that some Muslims hold on to their fundamental views so much, they forget that they should be building happy lives as part of Western culture, they need to adapt, change and put sacrifices instead of trying to force their "superior" stands on how society and religion should be. There's prenty of rioters and flag burners and looters in Arab states who will happily embrace their poor brothers and sisters.
Muslim immigrants in North America are an excellent example of progress and successful immigration (to a greater degree). They for most part have adapted, changed, did whatever was necessary to build happy lives. And they STILL MANAGED kept their religion, views and cultural history as well. Something that European Muslim youth has failed to notice, IMO.
I am pissed off because a friend of mine from Netherlands got injured in an attack by these immigrants. He's fine now.
More beef on Germany:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/07/news/react.php
| quote: |
In Germany, a cautious sense that 'we don't have to fear this'
By Richard BernsteinPublished: TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 2005
BERLIN: Cars were set on fire in Berlin, in the German city of Bremen and in Brussels in what appeared to be copies of the communal riots in France, and European leaders warned that poor and dissatisfied youths of immigrant backgrounds lived all over Europe.
The incidents late Sunday night, though minor so far, served as a reminder to many Europeans of the absence of any guarantee that the violence sweeping France could not spread to other countries in Europe that also have large, relatively poor and culturally alienated ethnic communities, most of them predominantly Muslim.
And, to be sure, there already has been intense communal violence elsewhere in Europe, if nothing quite like the French disturbances, most notably the fighting between Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants and the police in several towns in northern England a few summers ago.
And yet, as officials and community leaders watched the violence in France on television, there seemed to be at least a cautious and tentative conviction that the chance was small that riots on the scale of those in the Paris suburbs would break out in other countries.
"We also have youth violence problems in Germany, but we haven't experienced cases of the dimensions of the blind violence that's taking place in France at the moment," Norbert Seitz, director of the German Forum for Crime Prevention, a private information center, said in an interview.
From my point of view, we don't have to fear this in Germany," he said, citing the efforts of state and local governments and the police to create youth services and activities and to build relations with immigrant groups.
Wolfgang Schäuble, a conservative member of Parliament scheduled to become interior minister of Germany, said: "The conditions in France are different from the ones we have. We don't have these gigantic high-rise projects that they have on the edges of French cities."
Schäuble continued, however, that Germany needed to "improve integration, especially of young people" if violence is to be avoided.
Many European countries, from Spain to the Netherlands to Italy, have substantial immigrant communities, including Muslims from North Africa and Turkey, and there is certainly a fear among many people in those countries that ghettoized, poor, culturally separate communities are becoming permanent, with all the sense of alienation and despair that such communities often entail.
Particularly following the rise of global Islamic terrorism and highly publicized individual attacks perpetrated by European-born Muslims - most notoriously the murder last year of the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh - the nervousness provoked by growing Muslim communities has noticeably increased.
In general, Europe, which has never developed an immigration culture, seems to have been less successful than the United States at integrating foreign communities and giving them a stake in a new national identity.
And, at the same time, immigrant communities themselves have been less eager than traditional immigrants to the United States to take on a new identity, continuing to adhere to their traditional identities, languages and customs.
Many analysts and community leaders in Germany and other countries said that France's problems with disaffected, violence-prone young people are both bigger and deeper than the problems of most other European countries.
And so, if there was a consensus view about the prospect of large-scale copycat violence elsewhere in Europe, it was: Probably not right away, but it could happen in the future.
José Luis Ábalos, a city councilman for the Socialist Party in Valencia, Spain, which has a large number of Muslim immigrants, said in an op-ed article Sunday in the ABC newspaper: "Compared with France, Spain has been attracting large numbers of immigrants for only a short period of time."
But he continued, "It's important to observe that what is happening in our neighboring county could be a warning for what could happen here in the years ahead if serious, not marginal, integration policies are not developed."
In Italy, the leftist opposition leader, Romano Prodi, a former president of the European Union, warned that poverty, unemployment and urban decay could cause ethnic violence similar to that of France.
And yet, it seems unlikely that anyone who has toured the Paris suburbs with their ugly high-rise ghetto communities and France's aversion to any special treatment of ethnic minorities would be very surprised that the recent violence has taken place in France and not someplace else.
"I'm always saying, Berlin Kreuzberg is an island of happiness compared with the situation in France," Daniel Cohn-Bendit, a French-educated member of the European Parliament from Germany, said in an interview with Der Spiegel. He referred to the district in Berlin where many of Germany's Turkish immigrants have settled.
While much of Kreuzberg is poorer than other sections of Berlin, it bears no resemblance to Clichy or St. Denis or any of the other ghettos near Paris. Kreuzberg is very much a part of Berlin itself, with similar housing, restaurants and cafés and a mix of populations that give it a multicultural flavor reminiscent of neighborhoods in New York or Los Angeles. Unlike Clichy, for example, it is no ghetto.
"It's not that there aren't problems," said Oguz Ucuncu, secretary general of the Islamic Community of Milli Görüs, one of the main Turkish organizations in Germany, "but here you don't have the sort of depressing environment you have in France, where there is no prospect of getting out."
Ucuncu and Seitz both said that Germany has made an effort to identify Muslim organizations that can serve as intermediaries between the government, and especially the police, and Muslim neighborhoods, and to calm things when incidents occur.
The German approach to immigrant communities is more integrationist in this sense than the French one, where a commitment to a kind of secular universalism has impeded even the recognition that immigrant groups have separate identities with separate needs.
"Germans don't have an integration concept," Ucuncu said, "but we have an advantage in that we don't have the kinds of ghettos in Germany that they have in France, where politicians have refused to take steps for many years."
|
|
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Muslim immigrants in North America are an excellent example of progress and successful immigration (to a greater degree). They for most part have adapted, changed, did whatever was necessary to build happy lives. And they STILL MANAGED kept their religion, views and cultural history as well. Something that European Muslim youth has failed to notice, IMO.
|
Good point.
Canada has a very strong integration policy and there's lots of help in this regard.
ESL, Job workshops and several other non-profit organizations help make this a reality.
Kind of makes me wonder what kind of help there is in France, etc.?
Could be that ignoring 'the problem' has now only created one possibly... |
|
|
| George Smiley |
I'll post more on this subject when I have more time to read people's sources etc, but one thing I will say now is that to lump all "Muslim" riots into one category without looking at the individual reasons why these riots took place in the first place is just dumb.
The premise of this thread is that these riots are somehow all connected to religion rather than immigration/assmilation issues.
The French riots had nothing to do with religion but rather a hatred of the police by the population of the poorest suburbs of Paris (and we all know immigrants tend to find themselves living in the poorest areas, or ghettos if you will, and therefore all the problems associated with that), the British riots, again, had nothing to do with religion but were battles between members of the Asian community and the Nazis.
Of course, there have been riots that WERE to do with religion - the Danish cartoon protests spring to mind as obvious candidates, but to attempt to connect those riots to the ones in France are rediculous, as there simply is no connection (unless of course you're pursuing a particular agenda)
Somebody mentioned discontent against the state warrents lawsuits protests, not riots. True, maybe, but this is Europe and people tend to be more radically left wing than their counterparts in America etc and because of that going through "state means" to find a solution to problems isn't always the best option to them. During the early 90s there were huge riots across the UK to protest against a TAX! Riots with the police occured during the miners strikes. These were all committed by the indeginous community - nothing to do with religion - and lets not forget the LA riots in America!
My point: Just because riots take place and the people taking part happen to be born Muslims, it does not neccessarily (read usually) mean that Islam is the root cause of the riots. And certainly to construct a list of riots committed by Muslims and attempt to link them is idiotic because there are no comparisons and they all have their own localised reasons... |
|
|
|
|
