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production process
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| AgentStarchild |
I'm not sure I've got the right process for producing trance, that is to say the sequence of when I create what as well as how I structure my songs. My stuff does not sound nearly as organic, smooth, and atmospheric as the stuff I hear on here. It seems to always sound cheesy and predictable no matter what I do. So here are a bunch of questions for myself and other novices like me. I tried to avoid things in the FAQ already. Sorry if I missed something obvious, Agent Starchild
LOOPS
Basically what I do is I usually get a beat going, then add different voices, and create a basic loop. Sometimes I'll create two basic loops. Then my song is arranged by bring elements in and out of the loop one at a time and changing the drum pattern slightly each time, sometimes dropping the kick or other drums altogether. I feel like my loop-based production process makes my song sound un-organic and very predictable. Does this production process sound right on or off to you?
PRESET MODULATION VS. MIDI CONTROLLERS
I tend to use modulators that I can pre-program because I don't trust my knob-turning skills to produce perfect sine wave patterns or variations thereof. When I listen to trance songs, it seems like producers had to have used the knobs in some sections because the changes are too unpredictable. When do you use the knobs and when do you pre-program?
HOW MANY SOUNDS?
It always sounds on here like people have 30 different synthesizers in their songs. I usually max out at 8 or so different voices. Then when I download another person's song in a Reason file, there are about 50 tracks in their sequencer. How many sounds do you use in one song? Are people just using a lot of samples? I don't use any samples; I create everything from scratch so I can manipulate it how I want. Is that bad/dumb of me?
8 BAR VS. 16 BAR UNITS
For some reason, it sounds right to me at 145 bpm to operate in units of eight bars. I've heard other people say 16 is the magic number and they say to put cymbals, fills, other transitions, etc. only once every 16 bars. The song moves too slow for me at that pace but maybe that's my problem. Should I keep everything the same for 16 bar chunks before evolving or do the number of bars just need to be a number divisible by four? How do you decide?
"THE HOOK"
I have been operating under the assumption that it's taboo to do anything with your lead other than the one phrase that is your hook which you bring in and bring out throughout the song. Then when I listen to Tiesto, it sounds like he has about five different "hooks" in one song. Can you have more than one even if you're not cool like Tiesto or should you just stick to one?
TRANSITIONS
For transitions I do drum rolls and fills or drop the drums out and bring them back. When I create the build-up for a song, I can't seem to get it right without having some wind sweeping sound in the background that increases in pitch until the beat drops with a big cymbal crash. It seems very stereotypical and boring but I don't know what else to do.
What are some tricks you use for transitions?
MAKING IT "ATMOSPHERIC"
This is the biggest question. How do you make your song atmospheric? That's what people seem to want the most. More specifically, is this something that cannot be accomplished in a loop-based mode of operating? When I listen to songs on here, it sounds like people are not so much putting together clips of a few bars in a sequencer as recording live entire tracks of sound effects and pads at one time perhaps using a MIDI controller to modulate the sounds as they're going. |
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| AgentStarchild |
| Really? Why's that? :confused: |
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| mysticalninja |
| cause, you're complaining about your sound being too predictable/generic, and asking for MORE rules to follow. |
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| Ray_Chappell |
Read an article recently in SOS about a producer (forgot the name) that said he got away from producing "in the box" (computer) because he found he was WATCHING the music instead of LISTENING to the music. Not the case for everyone, but I find myself doing this sometimes and when i do, burn it and go listen to it somewhere else.
If I'm learning one thing, it's that rules are helpful... 8, 16, etc. But at the end of the day, the organic feeling comes from people PLAYING music, not following the "production rules." Sometimes the track sounds best not applying very many rules at all. |
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| AgentStarchild |
| Thanks. I could see that about watching it instead of listening to it. Makes sense. I just wish I could make my pieces sound less robotic and cheesy. I want to learn how to make it atmospheric instead but I can't figure out how to do that. Peace. |
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| AgentStarchild |
To Mystical Ninja:
It's not so much rules that I'm looking for but tricks of the trade. Maybe ninjas can levitate their laptops and channel their body energy to telepathically create perfect trance tracks but I've been trying for a good 3 years or so to make something that sounds like what I like listening to and all that seems to come out is crap or more accurately I come to some web forum thinking that I've finally got it right and everyone else's stuff sounds 1000 times better.
Anyway, listen to one of my two tracks I put up and talk sh** about it so that I'll at least have one comment.
Peace,
Agent Starchild |
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| echosystm |
| maybe you're just talentless? |
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | Originally posted by AgentStarchild
To Mystical Ninja:
It's not so much rules that I'm looking for but tricks of the trade. Maybe ninjas can levitate their laptops and channel their body energy to telepathically create perfect trance tracks but I've been trying for a good 3 years or so to make something that sounds like what I like listening to and all that seems to come out is crap or more accurately I come to some web forum thinking that I've finally got it right and everyone else's stuff sounds 1000 times better.
Anyway, listen to one of my two tracks I put up and talk sh** about it so that I'll at least have one comment.
Peace,
Agent Starchild |
I listend to your two songs, you've got a bit to go, but 3 years really isn't that long bro. I don't think you really have a problem with any of the things you listed, I think you need to concentrate on eq, compression, and fx at the moment. For atmosphere learn to use all your cpu on a single effect and then bounce/resample it. maybe even repeat.
Don't feel bad, when I was 3 years into production I was using romplers and knew nothing about eq compression reverb or delay. |
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| AgentStarchild |
| Thanks Ninja. What are these romplers people keep on talking about? You're the second person I've heard mention them. |
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| DJChrisB |
| quote: | Originally posted by AgentStarchild
What are these romplers people keep on talking about? You're the second person I've heard mention them. |
Rompler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rompler |
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| AgentStarchild |
To the Ninja:
Actually as a more serious question, based on what you heard, what are you thinking I need to use more compression on? I've been using it on my kick and my bass but that's about it. I had sort of this idea that you're supposed to squash things pretty hard and turn the input level up pretty high to make the sound more "pure." I'm sure that's an oversimplification of what really needs to happen.
As far as EQ, does it seem like my kick is too jacked up compared to the rest of the mix? I'm trying to err on the side of making the drums louder but I'm not sure if that's right. Are things too busy when I have the lead going? I like to think that all those other sounds are complementary but I'm never sure.
I'll just have to explore as far as FX go. It sounds from your description like as much work goes into the FX as the entire rest of the song. I think the lack of depth in my FX and pads may be what's keeping me down. |
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