|
Are we ignorant about religion?
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Lira |
Although this articles focus on the US, it's quite safe to say that the situation is not much different in other countries in the world. If you click the link, there's also an interesting religion literacy quiz, whose results make me wonder: how many of those who advocate the end of religion actually know a thing or two about this issue?
| quote: | The Gospel of Prothero
A Boston University professor argues that Americans, though 'spiritual,' are woefully ignorant about religion.
By Lisa Miller
Newsweek
March 12, 2007 issue - Steve Prothero is the kind of professor who makes you want to go back to college. During an hour lecture of his Boston University course "Death and Immortality," 200 students sat rapt last week as his train of thought led him from the Docetics (early Christians who believed that Jesus was all-God, not flesh), to reincarnation, to Disney World, to Hindu cremation rituals, to Plato's account of Socrates' trial (the day's assigned reading), to "Beauty and the Beast," to a hypothetical suicidal bunny, to a discussion of the merits of exile versus death for a man such as Socrates. To describe Prothero as "quick-witted" or his interests as "interdisciplinary" wouldn't quite do him justice. Prothero is a world-religions scholar with the soul of a late-night television comic.
This month, HarperSanFrancisco will publish Prothero's new book "Religious Literacy," a work whose message is far more sober than its author's affect. In spite of the fact that more than 90 percent of Americans say they believe in God, only a tiny portion of them knows a thing about religion. When he began teaching college 17 years ago, Prothero writes, he discovered that few of his students could name the authors of the Christian Gospels. Fewer could name a single Hindu Scripture. Almost no one could name the first five books of the Hebrew Bible. Prothero, who went to Yale in the early 1980s and speaks of his all-night bull sessions on politics and religion with reverence, realized that to re-create that climate in his classroom, his students first had to know something. And so he made it his job to (1) figure out what they didn't know and (2) teach it to them. He began giving religious literacy quizzes to his students, and, subsequently, to everyone he knew. Almost everybody failed.
His motivation is more than pedagogical. In a world where nearly every political conflict has a religious underpinning, Prothero writes that Americans are selling themselves short by remaining ignorant about basic religious history and texts, by not knowing the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite or the name of Mormonism's holy book. "Given a political environment where religion is increasingly important, it's increasingly important to know something about religion," he says. "The payoff is a more involved [political] conversation."
The book proposes a solution that is at once controversial and familiar: teach religion in public schools. Prothero believes that before graduation from high school, every American should take a Bible course and a world-religions course—dispassionate humanities courses whose purpose is not to catechize or evangelize but to educate. In colleges, he argues, we have science requirements, so why not religion? When Harvard decided recently not to make religion part of its core curriculum, "it missed an opportunity," he says.
The professor is not an advocate for any faith, though he's a great admirer of the faithful. He grew up on Cape Cod, Mass.; at 16, he was on the vestry of St. Peter's Episcopal Church, in Osterville, Mass. In college, he was "born again," but not for long. "The imperative of really believing your friends were wrong, and trying to convert them never made sense to me," he says. Post-college, he flirted with law school, politics and Buddhism until he found himself in graduate school at Harvard in religious history. There, he came to the crushing realization that as an American Christian he could never be a proper Buddhist, and so he returned to the mainline church. Today he defines himself as a "confused Christian."
The book is repetitive in spots and, perhaps as an indication of how fast the religion conversation in America is moving, can feel outdated. "The hard-core atheist," Prothero writes, "once a stock figure in American life, has gone the way of the freak show." Well, except for Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett, whose books on atheism have topped the best-seller lists for two years. In Prothero's utopian world, Americans would have enough religious knowledge to debate ethics positions using holy texts, to understand Biblical references in political speeches, to question their own beliefs about God—and to encourage others to question theirs. Only then will we enjoy one of the greatest privileges of the educated, which is to change our minds. |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17439043/site/newsweek/ |
|
|
| Lilith |
| quote: | | His motivation is more than pedagogical. In a world where nearly every political conflict has a religious underpinning, Prothero writes that Americans are selling themselves short by remaining ignorant about basic religious history and texts, by not knowing the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite or the name of Mormonism's holy book. "Given a political environment where religion is increasingly important, it's increasingly important to know something about religion," he says. "The payoff is a more involved [political] conversation." |
The US is a very deeply religious country with fervent followers of their respective beliefs, you could easily put it up there with most of the countries which have a government based with some kind of ecclesiastical backing anywhere else in the world. Dare I say it, but they're quite extreme more so than most western cultures I've seen and been too, there's some parts of the US I'd dare not reveal certain things about myself to the average person for fear of vilification as much as I've done the same in some of the middle eastern countries, for my own safety.
What does interest me though is the fact that the US is the way it is, will be quite resilient to outside influence as opposed to say more moderate countries like Great Britain, France or Australia. They neither bend or bow to outside opinion and remain internally divided, (for better or worse) but they don't have themselves tied up in what looks like a social form of assault from two sides.
By that the moderate countries are caught in a pincer, they have their own sort of political correctness if you will and culture of acceptance- These lend themselves to being accepting of outsiders and outside views but up until a point where the minorities become a larger majority and change their social environment to suit.
That won't happen in the US.
It'll bounce and refuse to be accepted by the secular and fervently religious groups within the country, you won't be able to convert a large group of people into accepting even on a simple educational level what after many generations of religious learning has been passed onto them as being canon. |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Although this articles focus on the US, it's quite safe to say that the situation is not much different in other countries in the world. If you click the link, there's also an interesting religion literacy quiz, whose results make me wonder: how many of those who advocate the end of religion actually know a thing or two about this issue?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17439043/site/newsweek/ |
LOL ... you dont need to know a lot about religion considering how much ignorance, wars, murder and lies come from religion. That considering how many wars in human history have been based around religion and how many people died from religious persecution - spanish inquisition, for example. And then the same people claim G-d is on their side - common sense is not on their side. I mean, how many of these religious hypocrites actually follow the own rules, as in Christianity for 10 Commandments? Huh? Religion is what has undermined humankind from within, what tries to keep us from progress. Earth once was a center of the universe and if you disagreed, then you were in trouble. Religion wants to convert everyone to their ways, using force to lie that its Lord's will. Religion supports and funds wars to push its agenda. The story is too long, and quite frankly, science is proving more and more of their bull. Ever since 20th century, religion has been weakening, which has contributed to the massive developments in our technological, social and political spheres. And religion, like in Middle East, wants to push us back into Medieval Ages. Do scientists use force, threats, manipulation to teach people about their fact-based views? |
|
|
| Sunsnail |
| Your Score is 73% |
|
|
| Aquadyne |
| I think it was Denis Diderot who once said that man will only be free once every king is hung by the entrails of every priest. |
|
|
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
LOL ... you dont need to know a lot about religion considering how much ignorance, wars, murder and lies come from religion. |
Actually, you do, as most "religious wars" are not caused by religion, but by social and political interests that are hardly ever connected to the system of beliefs in question.
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Earth once was a center of the universe and if you disagreed, then you were in trouble. Religion wants to convert everyone to their ways, using force to lie that its Lord's will. Religion supports and funds wars to push its agenda. The story is too long, and quite frankly, science is proving more and more of their bull. Ever since 20th century, religion has been weakening, which has contributed to the massive developments in our technological, social and political spheres. And religion, like in Middle East, wants to push us back into Medieval Ages. Do scientists use force, threats, manipulation to teach people about their fact-based views? |
Have you ever studied sociology, history or philosophy of science at any point in your life?
Let's begin with the heliocentrist problem you posted. Just as an example, the Catholic Church had given Galileo plenty of solutions as to how he could use his theories about how the Earth was not the centre of the universe - the problem in saying these words explicitly was political, because of a war that had broken out in Europe. Galileo just happened to be insistent, having said "Eppure si muove" because he didn't want to reformulate his words. Also, when Copernicus came up with heliocentrism it was promptly rejected by astronomers, back then, because it was counter-intuitive.
Besides, from your post, you're talking about an apparently shallow knowledge of abrahamic religions... they're not the only religions out there, you know? |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Actually, you do, as most "religious wars" are not caused by religion, but by social and political interests that are hardly ever connected to the system of beliefs in question.
Have you ever studied sociology, history or philosophy of science at any point in your life?
Let's begin with the heliocentrist problem you posted. Just as an example, the Catholic Church had given Galileo plenty of solutions as to how he could use his theories about how the Earth was not the centre of the universe - the problem in saying these words explicitly was political, because of a war that had broken out in Europe. Galileo just happened to be insistent, having said "Eppure si muove" because he didn't want to reformulate his words. Also, when Copernicus came up with heliocentrism it was promptly rejected by astronomers, back then, because it was counter-intuitive.
Besides, from your post, you're talking about an apparently shallow knowledge of abrahamic religions... they're not the only religions out there, you know? |
I wont bother arguing you much, I hate religion. I have read about Constantine, about Jesus, about how the Bible was written many years after the death of Jesus, and how we are supposed to believe that Bible is correct because its based on one person's miraculous appearance of Jesus on a trip to Damascus years after his death and how Jesus didnt allow his apostles to write things down, so things spread by a word of mouth, how Byzantine empire voted on and revised the Bible, changing it to the things it liked/disliked, etc. etc. plus all the wars around religion - most of these up to 19th century though, though today wars in Sudan, Israel, civil war in Iraq is hugely influenced by religion. I remember reading about the appalling Crusades campaigns to the Holy Land. Religion is becoming obsolete, my friend. These same religious freaks nowadays use the tools of science in their everyday lives while at the same time campaigning that science is evil, heretic, and wrong. Pfffft. |
|
|
| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
LOL ... you dont need to know a lot about religion considering how much ignorance, wars, murder and lies come from religion. That considering how many wars in human history have been based around religion and how many people died from religious persecution - spanish inquisition, for example. And then the same people claim G-d is on their side - common sense is not on their side. I mean, how many of these religious hypocrites actually follow the own rules, as in Christianity for 10 Commandments? Huh? Religion is what has undermined humankind from within, what tries to keep us from progress. Earth once was a center of the universe and if you disagreed, then you were in trouble. Religion wants to convert everyone to their ways, using force to lie that its Lord's will. Religion supports and funds wars to push its agenda. The story is too long, and quite frankly, science is proving more and more of their bull. Ever since 20th century, religion has been weakening, which has contributed to the massive developments in our technological, social and political spheres. And religion, like in Middle East, wants to push us back into Medieval Ages. Do scientists use force, threats, manipulation to teach people about their fact-based views? |
That's kind of funny considering that some of the bloodiest, most brutal, and dangerous wars have been waged by secular states, not to mention much of modern technology is a direct byproduct of that. Hello? WW1 & WW2? Did you already forget those? And your lovely secular Soviet Union killed far more people during it's short existance than ever imaginable ever before. So what exactly are you blabbering about? Plus, the instituions of universities and schools came more or less directly from religious schools existing in religious cultures in the first place. Most of your pagan/secular cultures didn't have jack, with the main exception of the greeks who really didn't make a whole lot of progress, given the fairly long time period they were around for, in any of the areas of knowledge and arts. They discovered some elementary concepts and fundamental priciples, but that's about it. Most of it comes from Muslim Arab who preserved old knowledge and improved on it ten folds, while the Church was busy burning down libraries, exponentialy expanding on arts, literature, science etc, followed by the Judeo-Christian West. There wasn't even any real distinction between science and non-science before the Arab, not to mention they laid down the foundation for modern mathematics and science, including the number system we currently use, which was further developed and refined later by the West (and still is to this day ofcourse). So you're pretty damn ignorant of history and the contribution coming directly from these "awful" religious cultures/socieites you deride so much. There simply aren't any comparable parallels in known history that come even close to the leaps and bounds made by them. And stop generalizing the church and the midevil ages to every religion, it only reflects how ignorant you are and how limited your knowledge of the non-Western world is. And acknowledgeing any of this doesn't require a belief in religion or even a belief in God, as that's kind of irrelevant to the facts. I can understand your hatred for religion, even though it's based on utter ignorance and mainly the Western experience with the Church constantly screwing them over and trying to control every aspect of their lives, but letting it cloud your judgment so much as to where you can't even see most of what you have today is a direct result of it if, using the same standard of broad generalization, well that's just ignorant and childish really. I don't know, maybe you never actually bothered studying any of this, which explains your comments. I have no problem with criticism, but it should at the very least be enligtened and based on actual research instead of ridiculous conjecture based on complete nonsense. And I think I already pointed out the hypocritical element of it already so there's no need to rehash that. The ironic this is how much people like yourself have much more in common with these stupid ignorant fundamentalists and don't even realize it.
NOTE: You can attribute all of this to social evolution or whatever you want, still doesn't change the facts. |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
ummmm ... here are some of the greatest scientists who ever lived - tell me how religious they were:
Einstein, Leonardo Va Vinchi, Nikola Tesla, Darwin, the people who invented microchips, modern computers, television sets, etc. etc.
I am not saying that religion is 100 percent source of all evil. Sure they have some good family-building points, discipline, and some religious people have contributed to the society in general. However, for most part religion is showing why its bad now - its becoming obsolete. If it was the right tool, why would people in democratic countries are shying away from it more and more than people in dictatorships? I mean, yes, communists and world wars are not religious based, but I wasnt saying all wars are based on religion. There are many other factors that drive the problems of our world. Religion, however, offers little if any positive developments to humankind, as it was science that brought us out of the dark ages and into the today's modern world - not religion. If it was in religion's choice, we'd be learning Bible, devoting most of our lives to religion, living in more strict societies, being brainwashed ... |
|
|
| Sunsnail |
| Mmm, while I'm not personally religious, I don't think I'd want to live in a society where religion wasn't present. Many of the religious people I know deter from doing crimes and bad things in general because of their beliefs in being punished by a supernatural authority. I think that crimes would increase in a society that was devoid of religion. |
|
|
| Omega_M |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Ever since 20th century, religion has been weakening, which has contributed to the massive developments in our technological, social and political spheres. |
That may be true in the western world, but it is not true if you look at Asia, especially countries like Japan, China and India. If you ever happen to visit India, you will see how religion is actually a way of life for these people. Religion is not separate from day to day life. Millions of people will rise up to morning prayers, perform religious acts before heading out to their work places. I cannot explain how integral a religion becomes part of your life, if you live and practice it daily. And yet the same people will work in atomic physics labs and built rockets. It is considered perfectly natural to believe in religion and develop technology. That is because of the belief that science actually reinforces the hindu religious views.
I do not believe that today's religious wars are based on ideological differences. Religion is used as a tool to implement personal agendas, which in most cases involves making money and keeping power. It is the ignorant ground fighter who is passionate about the religion and believes he's fighting in the name of God. All the higher ups are pretty much corrupt people with no scruples whatsoever. In the name of God, they will send 20 brainwashed suicide bombers to kill innocent people, when all they are doing is fomenting more trouble and playing a deadly game. |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_M
That may be true in the western world, but it is not true if you look at Asia, especially countries like Japan, China and India. If you ever happen to visit India, you will see how religion is actually a way of life for these people. Religion is not separate from day to day life. Millions of people will rise up to morning prayers, perform religious acts before heading out to their work places. I cannot explain how integral a religion becomes part of your life, if you live and practice it daily. And yet the same people will work in atomic physics labs and built rockets. It is considered perfectly natural to believe in religion and develop technology. That is because of the belief that science actually reinforces the hindu religious views.
I do not believe that today's religious wars are based on ideological differences. Religion is used as a tool to implement personal agendas, which in most cases involves making money and keeping power. It is the ignorant ground fighter who is passionate about the religion and believes he's fighting in the name of God. All the higher ups are pretty much corrupt people with no scruples whatsoever. In the name of God, they will send 20 brainwashed suicide bombers to kill innocent people, when all they are doing is fomenting more trouble and playing a deadly game. |
I wouldn't put Japan in that list, but as you can see there's a difference. Religion dominates poor countries, while tolerance and weakness of religion is observed in our highly advanced democratic countries, so to say.
Religion is dominant in poor and uneducated regions because people live in such misery they turn to religion to feel better, much like drinking some alcohol to forget about the problems. But in the end, the problems are not solved these ways. Its only consolidating power to the priests who abuse religion itself. People are still living miserable in those lands, religion has not given to them what sometimes it can promise. I dont like to live in fairy tales.
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
Mmm, while I'm not personally religious, I don't think I'd want to live in a society where religion wasn't present. Many of the religious people I know deter from doing crimes and bad things in general because of their beliefs in being punished by a supernatural authority. I think that crimes would increase in a society that was devoid of religion. |
Yes, yes, I agree, as I said - there's are some good things about religion. However, when religion becomes political, oh boy, bad things can develop quickly and easily. Corruption, lies and repressions are not exclusive to communists by any means, but extend to all hierarchy levels. Power corrupts often enough. |
|
|
|
|
