|
Elemental mixing question...
|
View this Thread in Original format
| DJMiakoda |
Okay, I've done read all of the tutorials on mixing (specifically eqing), the master lists, tutorials from other websites etc but I'm still kinda confused about this...
when you're mixing and using EQ, where does the kick drum typically sit and where does the bassline typically sit as far as frequency?
All of my tracks sound 'bottom heavy' to me, I've tried thinning out and pinpointing the frequencies in the bass equalization to some (very little) success, but the overall track still sounds bottom heavy.
My kick drums thud and I believe they are taking up too much range/space.
So, can someone tell me where the kick drum and bassline are suppose to sit in relation to frequency?
Thanks in advance :toocool: |
|
|
| Lindo |
well the low frequencies for the kick are around 60hz with the main attack somewhere around 200. for your bass, your lowest harmonic can be as low as 40-45hz but it's typically around 80hz.
Now about actually mixing, your kick might have too much thud because it's too loud. It can also be that way because you don't have any high frequencies. Too much mids might make it sound like its really "knocky" sounding. It really depends on a few factors. Try playing just your kick and bass see where they peak on the db meters without any effects. Get those sitting well together and if you have too much "boom" it could be the attack portion of the kick around 200-300hz. Rumble tends to be around the 100hz range. Don't go overboard on your eqing either. Use minor cuts (most of the time) so it doesn't make it sound messed up. |
|
|
| DJMiakoda |
Okay, lemme explain...
I was reading in The Dance Music Manual by Rick Snoman that 'the concept behind mixing is to ensure that each sound occupies it's own unique space'.
Now I realize he isn't speaking specifically about frequency space but I was wondering if there was a general guideline producers use when it comes to mixing the kicks and the basslines? Or do they let them inhabit the same frequencies and work them together? |
|
|
| Lindo |
Well with eqing the kick and bass, you generally want to give each sound some room to "breathe" so they're clear and distinct.
For a general guideline, there isn't one. Your track could be bottom heavy because other instruments are also occupying those lows and low mids.
For your kick and bass, only thing you can really do is look at your frequency analyzer and cut out frequencies that are conflicting with the other sound.
Let's have an example...
Your kick's frequency spectrum looks like this:
Your bass (playing on A#4) frequency spectrum looks like this:
Now when you look at those two spectrums, see how around 60hz that both of them are really loud? You need to make some room for your kick to breathe since that's where most of it's power comes from. So make a slight cut around 60hz and just keep looking through all of those to find out which spots you need to cut out or boost.
An easy way to figure it out is to make an 18dB boost with a high Q value and sweep through all the frequencies to find out where it starts to ruin the sound. Don't cut out too much content otherwise you'll overequalize the sound and it will become dull. Good luck. |
|
|
| camsr |
| Ahh yes, this is a beautiful application of sidechaining. |
|
|
| DigiNut |
No, it's actually a really ty application of sidechaining, so everybody please stop mentioning that in every thread about kicks or basslines just because you did the 5-minute fruityloops peak-controller tutorial.
On topic: you can actually do this both ways. In some of my tracks I have the bassline sitting below the kick, although in most of them it's above. You'll have to pull your individual tracks into a spectrum analyzer to see where the peaks really are (if the peaks for your bassline and kick are in the same place, you need to change one of them or *shudder* sidechain). The peak range can be anywhere from 60 Hz to 250 Hz for either a bassline or a kick. Any frequency area that's active but not close to the peak, you can start cutting away it and see if you can get the same "power" without the muddiness.
If your kick drums thud it may be because they just aren't good kicks. But the "thud" sound is usually the low end (below 100 Hz) so try a low shelf on that and see if it helps. |
|
|
| DJMiakoda |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lindo
Well with eqing the kick and bass, you generally want to give each sound some room to "breathe" so they're clear and distinct.
For a general guideline, there isn't one. Your track could be bottom heavy because other instruments are also occupying those lows and low mids.
For your kick and bass, only thing you can really do is look at your frequency analyzer and cut out frequencies that are conflicting with the other sound.
Let's have an example...
Your kick's frequency spectrum looks like this: img
Your bass (playing on A#4) frequency spectrum looks like this: img
Now when you look at those two spectrums, see how around 60hz that both of them are really loud? You need to make some room for your kick to breathe since that's where most of it's power comes from. So make a slight cut around 60hz and just keep looking through all of those to find out which spots you need to cut out or boost.
An easy way to figure it out is to make an 18dB boost with a high Q value and sweep through all the frequencies to find out where it starts to ruin the sound. Don't cut out too much content otherwise you'll overequalize the sound and it will become dull. Good luck. |
Okay, I see what you're saying with the frequency analyzer examples and where to boost and cut, this makes sense so far, as far as making db boosts while playing with the Q value, that's what I've been doing lately, trying to narrow down where the sound turns to crap.
I made copies of the original tracks so if I go too far and really zap the one's I'm working on, I can alway's go back to the originals.
I'll keep playing with it and see what I can come up with.
Thanks your advice, I truly appreciate it as I've been struggling with this for some time now. |
|
|
| DJMiakoda |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
On topic: you can actually do this both ways. In some of my tracks I have the bassline sitting below the kick, although in most of them it's above. You'll have to pull your individual tracks into a spectrum analyzer to see where the peaks really are (if the peaks for your bassline and kick are in the same place, you need to change one of them or *shudder* sidechain). The peak range can be anywhere from 60 Hz to 250 Hz for either a bassline or a kick. Any frequency area that's active but not close to the peak, you can start cutting away it and see if you can get the same "power" without the muddiness.
If your kick drums thud it may be because they just aren't good kicks. But the "thud" sound is usually the low end (below 100 Hz) so try a low shelf on that and see if it helps. |
Yeah, I'm presently using the samples available in FL Studio 5 (purchased), so I'm not too sure if these are of high quality or not, they sound okay when I compare them to some of my favorite dance tracks through my monitors, I guess I just assumed that most prducers really tweak each individual sound in their music and that I could get fairly close with what I'm presently using with enough practice and insight.
What is the advantage of sidechaining?
Could you maybe explain this a little more? |
|
|
| Lindo |
The basic samples in FL Studio are pretty...well crap. You can try to tweak them all you want, but you really have to do some work to get them sounding good imo. You can make a good sample sound bad, but you can't really make a crappy sample sound good. With that said, I think you should go out and buy yourself a decent sample cd and you can worry less about making your kick sound good. Sometimes sounds don't need to be tweaked because they sound good in the mix and by themselves.
About sidechaining, well, let's take a quick look at wiki to get a decent idea of what it is:
| quote: | | Sidechain (and sidechaining) is a process by which one audio input is used to determine the amount of an effect. which applies to another audio input. The determining audio input is called the sidechain and the process itself is called sidechaining. |
Quite typically, the effect you're going for is to duck the level of a sound when the kick hits and then bring it up as it dies down. A compressor can do this job or even volume automation works well. The advantage of doing this is it provides a little more room for the kick when it hits so it sounds more clear.
This effect is sometimes overdone and imho it sounds like crap because then you have this annoying "pumping" sound the whole time. |
|
|
| DJMiakoda |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lindo
The basic samples in FL Studio are pretty...well crap. You can try to tweak them all you want, but you really have to do some work to get them sounding good imo. You can make a good sample sound bad, but you can't really make a crappy sample sound good. With that said, I think you should go out and buy yourself a decent sample cd and you can worry less about making your kick sound good. Sometimes sounds don't need to be tweaked because they sound good in the mix and by themselves.
About sidechaining, well, let's take a quick look at wiki to get a decent idea of what it is:
Quite typically, the effect you're going for is to duck the level of a sound when the kick hits and then bring it up as it dies down. A compressor can do this job or even volume automation works well. The advantage of doing this is it provides a little more room for the kick when it hits so it sounds more clear.
This effect is sometimes overdone and imho it sounds like crap because then you have this annoying "pumping" sound the whole time. |
Yeah, I was hesitant to mention what software I was using due to the reviews it seems to recieve, eventually I'd like to move up to something better but I'd like to learn the basics first I think and I figured FL Studio is fairly basic so it seems to fit the demand.
That being said, I've tried Ableton Live and Reason software, honestly, I didn't care too much for either of those, FL just seems fairly intuitive, it's easy to find the samples I'm looking for and start laying out tracks, eventually I'd like to move on to something like Cubase, but like I mentioned, I need to learn the basics first.
Think of it this way, if I can make a diamond out of a turd (not saying FL Studio is a turd), imagine what I could do with better material.
Before I purchased FL I was using an all hardware set up...hardware synth's and a hardware DAW, I was reluctant to even try the software route, now I'm glad I have.
So, it's a slow proggression but, I'm learning alot of valuable lessons as I go.
As far as sidechaining, I think I get it, right now I have a compressor on my master track as well as my individual tracks, and I can hear the effect this has on the overall sound, not necessarily sidechaining but relatively similiar.
I get the same 'pumping' sound you're refering to.
Is this a common practice amongst producers or is it just a shortcut - easy solution to a more complicated problem? |
|
|
| Lindo |
| Sidechaining can add a nice effect to a track. I think it's both common practice and an easy solution to a simple problem for some. It's common practice because people think "Everyone else is doing it, I'll add it in my productions too." For some though, they figure it works on their basslines to get rid of the muddyness in their kick or bassline. The disadvantage to this is they think it's doing the trick for them when it really isn't fixing their problem. As for FL, it's a sweet sequencer. I reverted back to it from Ableton and I just started putting out tracks like nothing again. IMO, it is more intuitive for my tastes and seems the same for you too. Work with what you feel comfortable with, get good with it, and produce something great. |
|
|
|
|
