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Originally posted by DJ RANN See, that second group of music in my opinion is all gimmick and no content/substance. It was all about just make it phat. Yes, with a Ph. I can hear them in a studio right now saying make it phatter. It was the decline of musical quality in EDM and all about just how much distortion you can throw on a lead and how can you just make it sound more aggressive. You can actually kind of chronologically map this with some of the bigger producers who have been through this era like Ferry Corsten. He goes from making quite stunning and subtle trance, through to big cheesey fluffy trance tracks (this is what i call the tipping point where where club culture began to die in europe) then started making electro crap which was all about how phat a bassline/lead/distortion FX/etc you could make it. The emphasis was no longer on the quality of the melodic content. It was devolution of quality. Most people I know who got in to EDM around 2000+ doesn't quite get this. They think that harsh, dig your ears out with a rusty spoon sound is phat. To me, it's when all the rockers & metal'ers jumped ship because rock and metal went completely down the pan, dance music had become dumbed down enough for them to finally get it and the EMO's where stealing their thunder dress sense wise. It's a little ironic to me that you mention music no linger sounding like a "drum machine and bleeps" - granted, very early house (80's to early 90's all sounded like drum machines (that was all you had ot make it)) but the crap that came after 2000 sounds like my mobile phone dying from a meth overdose. Shit, James Zabiela, one of the "pioneers" of that nubreed music in the 00's made his name on what all joked about just being annoying bleeps. Sweeping generalisation but musical quality went down the pan and was replaced with noises. I mean fuck, I was playing some old records a few nights ago (4 hours worth) and not one of the relied on just an FX sweep/rise for the drop. Try that today. The current complextro (and even dubstep) is just an extension of that; how can music just get more aggressive, more impulsive for those with zero attention span. There's a reason that so much music from the earlier period of house has stuck around and become classics of EDM, wheras the following 10 years of EDM? Maybe one or two tracks a year will be able to stand the test of time to still be remembered 10 years later. I personally don't mind some of the aggressive stuff, but give me some fucking content, and sadly so little is present.

This all sounds like pure nostalgia.

I realized that if you don't want to end up like some of the old fucks on this forum, you have to start exposing yourself to new stuff. You can't just listen to one Dubstep song and say, "I DON'T GET IT, WHY ISN'T THIS LIKE GENRE X THAT I HAVE ADORED FOR YEARS!"

The other thing is that its easier to find great old music, than it is great new current music. Time filters out all of the crap, only the songs that are noteworthy are the ones that are most likely kept by people in their collections.

If you don't seek out any new music, then the chances of finding something good become less and less.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

you cannot enforce taste, neither is taste something that everyone likes, it can be distinct, or distant. Taste doesn't need to be tha flava of now. Neither is stuff always evolving in the right direction for everyone.

You're just a sheep, getting confused if you don't go with the "nu flow" that's really sad actually, it means that you don't have taste and are a bland mindless sheep without preference...MEH......

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I used to be a "trance kid" but after a while it just gets old. There's only so much good trance and after that its all shit. I'd rather listen to the best of every genre, than pigeon hole myself into an old scene and pay homage to my so called religion by not listening to anything else.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by Raphie Taste doesn't need to be tha flava of now. Neither is stuff always evolving in the right direction for everyone.

It's so easy to reject what's new and popular. You know why? It's because its different than anything else that's every been done.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

There is no scene... there are no genres, those are only called upon to find assurarance that one is liking the "right" thing (what sheep want to be identified with)

for me there is only good or bad music. Both are being produced today and have been produced in the past. And will most likely keep on being produced in the future.

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Last edited by Raphie on May-13-2012 at 23:36

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney pretty sure his name was rufio that screamed that. The guy that looked Mauri. COuld be completely wrong but the name Rufio came up. If i'm right, my memory is fucking awesome.

It's Rufio, with like the feathery red hair and shit. but I'm pretty sure you mean mãori.so 1/2.
not sure if he's from NZ but yeah, def some sort of -nesian.

edit: he's pino.

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Originally posted by Deillon Claud Vonstroke aggressive, what, where?

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Originally posted by Beatflux This all sounds like pure nostalgia. I realized that if you don't want to end up like some of the old fucks on this forum, you have to start exposing yourself to new stuff. You can't just listen to one Dubstep song and say, "I DON'T GET IT, WHY ISN'T THIS LIKE GENRE X THAT I HAVE ADORED FOR YEARS!" The other thing is that its easier to find great old music, than it is great new current music. Time filters out all of the crap, only the songs that are noteworthy are the ones that are most likely kept by people in their collections. If you don't seek out any new music, then the chances of finding something good become less and less.

It's got nothing to do with nostalgia at all; I've been in to EDM since around 1994, starting off with hardcore/oldschool/rave and house. At that time epic house was the mainstay and that segwayed in to trance which then spawned off progressive which i love, then I got deep in to tech house shortly after that, and I've always loved me some deep house, breakbeat and DnB. I love most forms of EDM and even some rare tracks of dubstep but what seems prevalent is what i was talking about earlier, the point of which you missed; it's now about FX, gimmicks and phat you can slap distortion and a delay on your sawtooth lead.

I like EDM when the musical content is high quality and hate cheap shots which at the moment dominate some genres/movements in EDM. Take trance for instance - I was going to the going to the gym this morning, needed something quick to DL that was fast/high energy, so quickly grabbed the latest ASOT.

What a pile of shit. IN 2 hours of music, I could pick one or two tracks that had decent musical content in terms of composition and arrangement.

The biggest thing that struck me was: if you took the FX of this lead or better still the whole arrangement in a given track and played it with GM sounds, would it sound any good? Resounding no.

Try it.

Listen a bunch of "new" tracks, and think what would happen if you took away the pingpong delays, giant reverbs and distortion chains - with so damn many of them, you'd be left with virtually nothing apart from sparse, childish composition and arrangements.

Seriously, the amount of tracks played that were all FX/sound design and no substance was shocking. I'm not even talking about a qualitative or subjective argument about what melodies are "good" because that's an impossible argument, I'm just simply talking about the number of tracks that solely rely on FX as their wares.

If time filters out all the crap, then why are there so many more classics from the 90's than there are from the 00's? Surely 12 years is enough time to have filtered out the crap and let the classics shine, yet I struggle to name 50 classics from the 00 decade and can probably do that just for the period for 1996 to 1999 without thinking. (and don't come with "well, you probably just weren't in to it as much in the 00's etc" - I purchased more tracks in that decade than I did in the 90's as I finally had money to spend on tracks, not to mention they were either cheaper or even free).

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Originally posted by Beatflux It's so easy to reject what's new and popular. You know why? It's because its different than anything else that's every been done.

But that's like the hipster argument; People don;t like change but if anything, it's difficult to reject what popular because in this society it's drilled in to us at every opportunity.

I fucking hate the SHM/Afrojack/Avicii sound with a passion but that doesn't stop it from being played every single fucking time I switch on the radio, turn on the TV or walk in bar.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I fucking hate the SHM/Afrojack/Avicii sound with a passion but that doesn't stop it from being played every single fucking time I switch on the radio, turn on the TV or walk in bar.

oh well, at least it has come to the point where it is like trance 8yrs ago. It's one mass of screamingly loud whining noises. It won't last that long anymore this way. I don't think it will survive summer 2013. But by then we'll have something else to hate.

I do not dislike more recent music in general, just the SHM sound in general.

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If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

i can't really think of an EDM tune made post 90s pre 1998 that wasn't absolute junk. My personal tastes but there was this brutal period basically a decade of just awful drug required for listening garbage. Ya, sure about 20 tunes that were great. But overall, not so great.

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old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
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Out of interest for all things production, what do people think are the best tools for all the stuttering / slewing stuff?


I notice the same sounds in complextro / dub keep comming up such as;


+ Bit crushed vocal stutters and aaaaeeeeeooowwww sustained vocal licks

+ repeated door slamming type perc licks

+ very distinctive band passed filter synth sounds - what is this specific filter product I wonder. No filter I have is capable of getting the right tone


Do people hand make em, or are these often from sample packs?