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Originally posted by Adam420 In Montreal, underground trance is VERY underground. Moreso than techno and dubstep. Although it does lean mostly towards goa and prog-psy.

Isn't that the case almost everywhere? I mean pretty much no city has more than 1-2 clubs that occasionally invite the big trancecracker DJs and play mainstream-trance. The rest as all very underground/psy oriented.

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I did not mean that someone like cosmithex cant play at a festival, but he isnt going to close out ULTRA anytime soon. Neither is Solar Fields or J00F. That is in stark contrast to the fact that Sasha and Digweed and Paul Van Dyk used to always close out festivals like Homelands or Ultra playing progressive and Trance music. Those days are long gone.

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Originally posted by Woony Isn't that the case almost everywhere? I mean pretty much no city has more than 1-2 clubs that occasionally invite the big trancecracker DJs and play mainstream-trance. The rest as all very underground/psy oriented.

Yea, well I meant that underground trance is even more underground than any techno or anything else. Like much more "off the beaten path".

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Levels is...decent...damn better than a lot of the shite dominating the charts at the moment. It sounds absolutely nothing like...a billion and one similar tracks in this big-room style. I always had a soft spot.

That's the same everywhere. It took me ages to realise Leeds had a psy trance scene, because there were no posters and no listings. A lot of these events deliberately keep things word of mouth, to stop clubbing tourists from wandering in. They can still attract crowds of hundreds on a regular basis.

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quote:

Originally posted by paulversuspaul I did not mean that someone like cosmithex cant play at a festival, but he isnt going to close out ULTRA anytime soon. Neither is Solar Fields or J00F. That is in stark contrast to the fact that Sasha and Digweed and Paul Van Dyk used to always close out festivals like Homelands or Ultra playing progressive and Trance music. Those days are long gone.

I really have to go out right now, so I don't have the time for a more in-depth answer, but excuse me, fuck ultra.

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Originally posted by Alero50 I really have to go out right now, so I don't have the time for a more in-depth answer, but excuse me, fuck ultra.

I agree, just saying that the times have changed. Commercial trance is shit. There was a time when commercial trance was good. What these threads bemoan is not the death of trance as a musical genre but the death of popular commercial stadium trance played by superstar trance DJs that retains great productions and melodies. Trance is actually going back to its original roots on an ideological level: hypnotic journey music that is not easily digestible. Classic Trance was never meant to be enjoyed by the frat crowd or drunken slobs on a saturday night dance floor. It was experimental and repetitive. To steal from Ishkur, it was meant to consist of notes that went on for minutes, songs that lasted hours, and parties that lasted days. It was the musical equivalent of reading Joyce or Proust and not Hemingway. Real trance has not been healthier in a long time. What people who post these type of threads or say these things have to decide is what they love about trance. The music or the scene. That scene of 10 thousand people putting their hands up in the air rolling and all yelling "Lager, lager, lager" or closing their eyes to the lush melodies of forbidden fruit during a classic PVD set are done. But you can find lush melodies reminiscent of forbidden fruit or experimental and manic structures like born slippy in a lot of recently produced trance songs by a lot of great up and coming producers.

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I still enjoy most trance events i go to, and most people there also seem to.

hmmmm

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Originally posted by cropped I still enjoy most trance events i go to, and most people there also seem to. hmmmm

I also enjoy going to some commercial trance events, like the last time I saw PVD at Avalon in Hollywood. But that does not mean I dont think the quality of the stuff he is playing is way inferior to the quality of the tracks he played more than 10 years ago. As an analogy lets use american Hollywood cinema. I also can enjoy seeing The Avengers but that does not mean I think it is as good as seeing Vertigo, Rio Bravo, Citizen Kane etc.

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Originally posted by paulversuspaul Classic Trance was never meant to be enjoyed by the frat crowd or drunken slobs on a saturday night dance floor. It was experimental and repetitive. To steal from Ishkur, it was meant to consist of notes that went on for minutes, songs that lasted hours, and parties that lasted days. It was the musical equivalent of reading Joyce or Proust and not Hemingway.

I think Trance was meant to be enjoyed back then. Nothing more, nothing less. To me the part from Ishkur at least isn't like I experienced it in the early 90's.

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Originally posted by Trance-MB I think Trance was meant to be enjoyed back then. Nothing more, nothing less. To me the part from Ishkur at least isn't like I experienced it in the early 90's.

I wasnt trying to use his quote literally. I meant to use it more symbolically in the sense that the music was not easily digestible. I and many people our age did enjoy it back then but it was not something you could play to everyone and they would love it instantly. Many people found it and still do find it monotonous and boring. Just look at how many people who listen to commercial trance today almost have no desire to listen to classic trance and find it boring.

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Originally posted by paulversuspaul I wasnt trying to use his quote literally. I meant to use it more symbolically in the sense that the music was not easily digestible. I and many people our age did enjoy it back then but it was not something you could play to everyone and they would love it instantly. Many people found it and still do find it monotonous and boring. Just look at how many people who listen to commercial trance today almost have no desire to listen to classic trance and find it boring.

Well, that's true and that's how I remember it. At a certain point at the late 90's I got the feeling trance would get mainstream. Don't know exactly why, probably because trance jumped in the gap because Eurodance was reducing in popularity, or simply because both became closer to eachother.
Early 90's hardtrance however doesn't sound monotonous and boring to me, but because of the speed still didn't attract many people. Most people first needed to get used to House at the time. Happy Hardcore actually did closed the gap to hardtrance a little and because of that also more people came in contact with trance. Just giving my view, which doesn't need to be correct.

"I and many people our age", is that people of your age or mine or is yours close to mine?

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Originally posted by Trance-MB Well, that's true and that's how I remember it. At a certain point at the late 90's I got the feeling trance would get mainstream. Don't know exactly why, probably because trance jumped in the gap because Eurodance was reducing in popularity, or simply because both became closer to eachother. Early 90's hardtrance however doesn't sound monotonous and boring to me, but because of the speed still didn't attract many people. Most people first needed to get used to House at the time. Happy Hardcore actually did closed the gap to hardtrance a little and because of that also more people came in contact with trance. Just giving my view, which doesn't need to be correct. "I and many people our age", is that people of your age or mine or is yours close to mine?

I think im close to your age. Im 34 and been listening to this stuff since early 90s. Didnt fully get to enjoy it live u ntil i could go out all the time and hear it live at venues etc until turning 18 in 96 though.

That moment in the late 90s is what i am referring to. That was the point when the commercial trance ie what was popular and closing the most commercial of festivals was still quality and still real trance. Something about the approaching millennium, created this perfect moment in which almost everyone liked hearing trance music. Trance that was both popular, easily digestible, but still real trance and great music. To me that is what people are bemoaning. The loss of that one moment in which there was no distinction between commercial trance and artistic trance.

The best analogy is actually in the cinema. A lot of cinephiles constantly bemoan the death of the cinema as an artistic enterprise and hearken back to the 60s when Antonioni and Godard were not only making modernist art house masterpieces, but those movies got played at local movie theaters. But the cinema and art house cinema never died. It just went more underground. The art house cinema of antonioni and godard got replaced by the art house cinema of kiarostami and Hou Hsiao-Hsien. Its still there but it no longer is played at the local movie theater. You have to dig deeper. When cinephiles bemoan the death of cinema, they are wrong. Its not dead as an artistic movement. its death is the death of the popular cinema having artistic value. Replaced by commercial easily digestible garbage. Same thing has happened in dance music and trance in particular.

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