^^^ It's things like that which make me scratch my head whenever I see people like Raphie bash piracy as a universally evil, criminal activity that directly hurts the poor companies trying to sell their shit.

Nobody really considers the fact that the alternative, which is paying money for these products, is putting money in the pockets of companies which are blatantly ripping people off, and couldn't give a shit about the consumer. So why should I care about them?

I could pay $60 for a game from EA and wait a week for it to ship (or go to the store to pick it up). Once I get it, I can install it on three computers, before the DRM protection in the CD basically renders it useless, and I can no longer use the product I PAID for, in the way it's intended to be used. After going through advertisements, bypassing the toolbars it tries to install on my computer, I can finally play the game, but only if I'm logged into the internet at all times, even if I'm playing single-player. If I disconnect, for any reason, the game will shut off and I'll lose anything I didn't save.

Or, I could download the fucking thing for free, within an hour or two, install it quickly on as many systems as I want, and play it without having to be connected to the internet. But doing so labels me a "criminal" in the eyes of people who would rather side with companies who don't give a fuck about customers who pay for their products.

Last edited by Kysora on Jan-24-2012 at 17:11

so basically you need all that text to say that you don't want to pay for products u use. (otherwise you would have bought the game to recognize the developers and still use the crack for convenience)

Money talks, bullshit walks.......

look at the people who wrote the blog.. FFS misunderstood gothic students. go camping with the occupy movement or something. leeching sideline moaners

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quote:

Originally posted by Kysora ^^^ It's things like that which make me scratch my head whenever I see people like Raphie bash piracy as a universally evil, criminal activity that directly hurts the poor companies trying to sell their shit. Nobody really considers the fact that the alternative, which is paying money for these products, is putting money in the pockets of companies which are blatantly ripping people off, and couldn't give a shit about the consumer. So why should I care about them? I could pay $60 for a game from EA and wait a week for it to ship (or go to the store to pick it up). Once I get it, I can install it on three computers, before the DRM protection in the CD basically renders it useless, and I can no longer use the product I PAID for, in the way it's intended to be used. After going through advertisements, bypassing the toolbars it tries to install on my computer, I can finally play the game, but only if I'm logged into the internet at all times, even if I'm playing single-player. If I disconnect, for any reason, the game will shut off and I'll lose anything I didn't save. Or, I could download the fucking thing for free, within an hour or two, install it quickly on as many systems as I want, and play it without having to be connected to the internet. But doing so labels me a "criminal" in the eyes of people who would rather side with companies who don't give a fuck about customers who pay for their products.

Noooo do not go down that shitroad again. Only if you are Chinese and live in China you'd be mildly right since they hardly have any copyright and intellectual property laws. Just about any other country has sane copyright laws that make what you do illegal and enough do to some hard time in jail.

This topic was all about the implications overall on the freedom of speech and copyright of sopa and pipa.

And for your case, specifically, Kysora, nothing would really change other than you might have to look a bit harder for your downloads.

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora Nobody really considers the fact that the alternative, which is paying money for these products, is putting money in the pockets of companies which are blatantly ripping people off, and couldn't give a shit about the consumer. So why should I care about them?

Because you understand the strategic value of maintaining a moral high-ground. While it could be successfully argued that piracy is a smoke-screen for ulterior motives, the act is still a moral transgression and, as such, provides legitimacy for groups seeking to impose restrictions on the internet that go well beyond what is called for to disrupt simple piracy.

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or they just can all cease to exist and thus stop developing and there will be nothing anymore for you to leech......

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No, the consequences will be neither black, nor white. I don't want this topic to do down this road so if it continues I'll just close/delete it.

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

I would point out that, included in the name of ACTA, which is threatening to become a world-wide treaty, is the word, Counterfitting. I have long held that is what is occurring when people pirate intellectual property. From an economic perspective it creates an unlimited supply of a good at a zero price and not everyone who generates intellectual property they'd like to receive money for is a greedy corporation.

I am not for PIPA, ACTA, SOPA, or SOPA 2.0, for that matter, however they are, in part, the result of people pirating intellectual property. You cannot claim victimization to such laws under the assumption that two wrongs make a right. Arguing that you're just stealing from greedy corporations who have rigged the system to their favor still admits that you are stealing, as well.

Again, I refer to my belief that there is actually strategic advantage to maintaining the moral high-ground. Claiming to be a victim when you have victimized others, rationalizing that offense in whatever way possible, doesn't line up with the ethical arguments against these intrusive, draconian laws.

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie so basically you need all that text to say that you don't want to pay for products u use.

uh, that's not what I said at all.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Because you understand the strategic value of maintaining a moral high-ground. While it could be successfully argued that piracy is a smoke-screen for ulterior motives, the act is still a moral transgression and, as such, provides legitimacy for groups seeking to impose restrictions on the internet that go well beyond what is called for to disrupt simple piracy.

Agreed, but that's not really the point I was making -- I realize piracy is still illegal, and I'm not trying to justify that. I'm just saying, people get way too focused on what people are doing, and never consider why they're doing it in the first place. Companies like Steam have massive profits, because they offer a service that's actually more convenient than piracy, while still being fair to all parties involved, including the customer. There are ways to go about doing that, but most corporations/companies refuse to adapt to new technology.

I'm just trying to offer a different perspective than the one raphie's been spouting for how long now. Piracy isn't a good thing, but it wouldn't exist if the companies would focus on making their services worth it to their customers.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Arguing that you're just stealing from greedy corporations who have rigged the system to their favor still admits that you are stealing, as well.

I am, but I'd argue that the harm caused by what these corporations do is far greater than the harm caused by what pirates do. Especially if these corporations are introducing legislation to censor the internet, in a desperate attempt to prevent themselves from becoming obsolete. Which is, in many ways, already happening.

When I'm called a criminal for doing what I do, by people who don't even consider the above, it's a little insulting. The big picture is lost on a lot of people.

Storyteller, I hope you don't delete this thread and I'm content to leave the discussion where it is (i.e. no further rebuttals on piracy). I think all that has been said on piracy pretty much amounts to all that can be said. These bills, should they pass, are going to have an enormous impact on what each of us does - whether we're doing it in part, for money, or not.

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my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper https://plus.google.com/u/0/1113140...sts/HQJxDRiwAWq Why was MegaUpload really shut down? In December of 2011, just weeks before the takedown, Digital Music News reported on something new that the creators of #Megaupload were about to unroll. Something that would rock the music industry to its core. (http://goo.gl/A7wUZ) I present to you... MegaBox. MegaBox was going to be an alternative music store that was entirely cloud-based and offered artists a better money-making opportunity than they would get with any record label. "UMG knows that we are going to compete with them via our own music venture called Megabox.com, a site that will soon allow artists to sell their creations directly to consumers while allowing artists to keep 90 percent of earnings," MegaUpload founder Kim 'Dotcom' Schmitz told Torrentfreak Not only did they plan on allowing artists to keep 90% of their earnings on songs that they sold, they wanted to pay them for songs they let users download for free. "We have a solution called the Megakey that will allow artists to earn income from users who download music for free," Dotcom outlined. "Yes that's right, we will pay artists even for free downloads. The Megakey business model has been tested with over a million users and it works."

my tin-foil hat is on.

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quote:

Originally posted by Kysora I could pay $60 for a game from EA and wait a week for it to ship (or go to the store to pick it up). Once I get it, I can install it on three computers, before the DRM protection in the CD basically renders it useless, and I can no longer use the product I PAID for, in the way it's intended to be used. After going through advertisements, bypassing the toolbars it tries to install on my computer, I can finally play the game, but only if I'm logged into the internet at all times, even if I'm playing single-player. If I disconnect, for any reason, the game will shut off and I'll lose anything I didn't save. Or, I could download the fucking thing for free, within an hour or two, install it quickly on as many systems as I want, and play it without having to be connected to the internet. But doing so labels me a "criminal" in the eyes of people who would rather side with companies who don't give a fuck about customers who pay for their products.

I posted a video about it, but I didn't embed it since it was on auto-play.
Anyway, the point of that video was that the business models publishers, labels, distributors etc. are using, are designed for a pre-internet era and should really consider making sure that paying for copyrighted material should be easier than illegally downloading it. Piracy cannot be removed with draconian laws.

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