quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose Crap, now i cant get that song out of my head, i spent almost the entire time when walking my dog listeninng to it. Like i said...crap.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

So I just popped in my old Temple of the Dog cd. Chris Cornell rocks! Anyone here listen to Audioslave? Or Rage Against the Machine?

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by Lira I'm not. And, in case you're puzzled, here's the explanation: First of all, the song is catchy

Kind of like most mainstream music, which is incredibly crapy.

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Originally posted by Lira - I've been playing it for the last hour non-stop. It's simple, cheesy and not even the producer takes it seriously. The whole thing is taken as a joke, from the lyrics talking about an internet bot to the video showing a "boat in a channel" (Christ, what a bad pun ). Besides, I used to love eurodance back in the day, and I love the retro feel of this tune. I never managed to get into "prog", for example, because of its boring rhythm and lack of fun. It can't even brag about being musically interesting, because it's not (is there any real "inovation"?), although it pretends it is. You probably realised I said it was the most interesting tune slower than 145, and that's because Acid Techno is still fun. NRG is just party music, and it's aware of this. Most punk rock is, well, punk rock. And drum'n'bass, you like it or not, seems to have this inherent experimentalism... which is lacking in recent 4/4 genres.

Intentional humor or not, that's exactly why I was turned off by EDM in general since my exposure to it had been mostly shalow, cheesy meanigless crap like that until I started listening to Trance. Unfortunately, trance is already well on it's way down that road.

I guess some people might appreciate it for exactly those reasons.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Kind of like most mainstream music, which is incredibly crapy.

Not necessarily. In fact, I'd go as far as saying not at all.

There's no such thing as properly bad music, but music aimed for a different target audience. This music, for example, does not match what you want/like, but it does in my case - it's fair to say that whereas I'm looking for a set of characteristics in tunes, you're looking for other characteristics.

You can't at all, have an objective look at music (and pretty much everything else), so attaching the quality of "good" or "bad" to the music as an absolute measure is a bit inaccurate.

Except for prog, that thing is just an unfortunate accident

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Intentional humor or not, that's exactly why I was turned off by EDM in general since my exposure to it had been mostly shalow, cheesy meanigless crap like that until I started listening to Trance. Unfortunately, trance is already well on it's way down that road.

It is? Usually trance is so stuck up in seriousness... is it more humorous now?

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Originally said by Adolf Fleisch Hitler How naive can people be? Curing the COR with messy hair and philosophy?

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Originally said by Maurice Moss I came here to kick ass and drink milk... and I've just finished my milk

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Originally posted by Lira You can't at all, have an objective look at music (and pretty much everything else), so attaching the quality of "good" or "bad" to the music as an absolute measure is a bit inaccurate.

i disagree

for one example, mastering, or taken to an extreme, audio quality in general; while it's not an absolute rule (what is?), it's a general one, 320kbps is (almost) always better than 22kbps.

for another example, polyphonic music is (almost) always better than monophonic music.


i'd love to develop some forsight into objective differences between genres, and between the underground and the mainstream of each, but unfortunately i have not developed any such forsight as of yet, but i don't think it would be impossible to develop by any means. theoreis i'm currently sketching in mind regarding this issue are dependent on elitism - an arbiter, while i'm sure some people will have problems accepting such theories, i doubt that would make them inherently false.

(please continue the discussion, i yearn for these )

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People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T i disagree for one example, mastering, or taken to an extreme, audio quality in general; while it's not an absolute rule (what is?), it's a general one, 320kbps is (almost) always better than 22kbps.

Ever heard of Cassette Culture? There's a whole movement dedicated to lo-fi artists, and that "amateurism" of lo-fi, poorly encoded/recorded music is what these people appreciate.

One of my favourite punk rock songs, for example, is so poorly recorded you can barely listen to the bassline. However, it feels so romantically identical to a teenage garage band that I don't think I'd want it any other way:

http://www.geocities.com/maaz_lira/..._800_-_Lily.mp3

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Originally posted by Psy-T for another example, polyphonic music is (almost) always better than monophonic music.

Once again, not necessarily.

Monophonic music is extremely more simple and, therefore, easier to be interpreted by the brain. That gives it the potential of being catchy, for example.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T i'd love to develop some forsight into objective differences between genres, and between the underground and the mainstream of each, but unfortunately i have not developed any such forsight as of yet, but i don't think it would be impossible to develop by any means.

These objective differences would need to happen through language, and based on ideal interpretations of what someting is(n't).

For example, given the three genres:

Acid Techno | Acid House | Tech-House

These are ideal terms, and sticking to just one of them for each song will give you more problems than solutions.

What makes Acid Techno not Acid House?
What if a tune shares characteristics of both Acid Techno and Acid House? Would it be Acid Tech-House?
If we remove the 303 from this "Acid Tech-House" tune, and it doesn't sound like Tech-House, can it really be Acid Tech House?

See? I've got to go now, but I'm going to explain this using samples later...

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quote:

Originally said by Adolf Fleisch Hitler How naive can people be? Curing the COR with messy hair and philosophy?

quote:

Originally said by Maurice Moss I came here to kick ass and drink milk... and I've just finished my milk

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Originally posted by Lira Ever heard of Cassette Culture? There's a whole movement dedicated to lo-fi artists, and that "amateurism" of lo-fi, poorly encoded/recorded music is what these people appreciate. One of my favourite punk rock songs, for example, is so poorly recorded you can barely listen to the bassline. However, it feels so romantically identical to a teenage garage band that I don't think I'd want it any other way: http://www.geocities.com/maaz_lira/..._800_-_Lily.mp3 Once again, not necessarily. Monophonic music is extremely more simple and, therefore, easier to be interpreted by the brain. That gives it the potential of being catchy, for example.

hence "(almost)", for both cases

quote:

Originally posted by Lira These objective differences would need to happen through language, and based on ideal interpretations of what someting is(n't). For example, given the three genres: Acid Techno | Acid House | Tech-House These are ideal terms, and sticking to just one of them for each song will give you more problems than solutions. What makes Acid Techno not Acid House? What if a tune shares characteristics of both Acid Techno and Acid House? Would it be Acid Tech-House? If we remove the 303 from this "Acid Tech-House" tune, and it doesn't sound like Tech-House, can it really be Acid Tech House? See? I've got to go now, but I'm going to explain this using samples later...

i deal with such dilemmas nearly every day, and i don't see why i should restrict myself to 3 genres (btw, the problem is far more serious for me between acid techno and acid trance ).

as for the example questions, if i should answer them using my own definitions in mind:

what makes acid techno not acid house? a combination of sounds, groove (groove is the drums sounds & pattern vs the bass' sound & pattern, their interaction, and the 'direction' they take the track), and sometimes bpm.

when a tune shares charactersitics of both acid techno and acid house i figure out which are 'stronger', suppose it's techno, and place it under the genre "Acid Techno (House)", quite a simple solution.

as for the third question, acid-techno is more than the 303, though that is it's main characteristic, losing it will not often lead to it being a different genre, so to speak; but when it does happen, it's quite likely to fit under the "Techno (House)" genre (which isn't Tech-House btw), but regardless, there's no need for a default place for it to fall down to.

referring directly to your example: Acid Tech-House != Acid+Tech-House
the similiarity of the genre names is coincidental as far as i'm concerned, they might as well be named after numbers for all i care.

see why my theories most likely require an arbiter?

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew http://www.risingconcepts.com/frapper/pdd A PDD world map, everyone add yourself Hahaha, and as for my club adventure, that's great I'm not alone with my problem. But yeah, I'm a bad bad Swede... that is not going to drink that much in the future Not untill thursday when I'm going to see Armin anyway Edit: I started a new thread with that map instead, much more fun that way since only the regulars check this thread...

Found it.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Not necessarily. In fact, I'd go as far as saying not at all. There's no such thing as properly bad music, but music aimed for a different target audience. This music, for example, does not match what you want/like, but it does in my case - it's fair to say that whereas I'm looking for a set of characteristics in tunes, you're looking for other characteristics. You can't at all, have an objective look at music (and pretty much everything else), so attaching the quality of \"good\" or \"bad\" to the music as an absolute measure is a bit inaccurate.

i totally disagree. whilst you might not be able to compare & contrast music styles of a different genre, you can definitely compare songs that are in the same ballpark. there are rules to music, and as such, they can be judged. ill use my favourite example- for all music to be equal, me banging on pots and pans with a spoon would have to be same in terms of musicalness (haha) as one of beethoven's symphonies, which is clearly ridiculous.

but, it does illustrate there is a line there somewhere, between good and bad music. its just that the line is almost impossible to find

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Except for prog, that thing is just an unfortunate accident

oh, coming from the DnB enthusiast that just makes me laugh

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oh yeah, and this is still the PDD, even if it is the chillout room tathi. you shouldnt deliberately misquote people. deep melodic prog my arse

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Here is a nice story about how laws here suck and how policemen arent alway as bad as the public likes to belive.

Some time ago a friend cought a robber trying to steal his car stereo. He puled him out of the car (he is wery strong) and in the heat of the moment proceded to rearange his bones for a bit (black belt, karate), at which time a police patrol just happened to drive by and take a look at what was going on. Now here lies the problem as over here the law forbids you to harm a robber, even if hes walking past you with your stuff. What you are supposed to do is call the police, wait for 2 hours so that they can show up, describe the guy, wait anywhere from 3 months to eternity for them to catch the guy and then watch angrily as the judge sets him free even if his record is longer than a monday. If you do harm the prick he is most likely to sue you and actualy win.
Anyway, the cops pulled over, dragged my friend away from the bleeding bad guy and asked just what the hell was going on. My friend explained in cold blood what had happened, while the robber was yelling at the top of his voice that he was going to sue (by now this had turned into a nice scene with many observers). The cop looks at my friend, at the robber and at the cround of people gathering around them and summs up the events, it went something like this.
"So you saw the guy stealing your stereo, you yelled at him while still some distance away from the car, he saw you were twice his size, got scared and decided to run for it, ut onfortunatly tripped and fell over those stairs over there."
My friend confirmed the officers summary, the robber was thrown into the police vehice while still yelling that he is going to sue and the crows went away smiling. In court the judge had some trouble figuring out how that guy recieved such extensive injuries by falling over three stairs, but with the robber telling one story and my friend, two officers and several whitnesses telling another my friend didnt get charged for assault.

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