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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas
US Gun Crime

Well I just finished watching Bowling for Colombine.

I think it was a fun watch, a laughable attempt at making some dumb political points, but at the end it does pose one good question:

Why is American Gun Crime so much higher in the US then other places?

I do some of Mike's nudges that it might be due to the NRA, or TV News (making everyone scared) - as local TV did not scare me nearly a precent as much as his film did (I actually started thinking black ppl use more guns and that white ppl should be scared of blacks thanks to his scary movie )

I don't believe it has anything to do with history either.

The answer I do believe lies in culture.

But the closest answer I got to that was - Culture.

But what is it about US culture that is so different from the rest of the world?

And here I thought Charles (Heston) did have a good point - Ethnicity; meaning that the US is not as homogenous as the other places it is being compared to regarding gun crime.

So I looked up the stats for myself:

Mike, says Canada has only 13% minorities (and I will believe him for lack of being to lazy to look it up myself), that is in my opinion a completely homogenous society.



The US however has 25% - this is a partially homogenous society. The minorities are a minority - but a 1/4 of the populaiton is significant. source: US Census

US total population is : 281,421,906
US white population is : 211,460,626

I don't know, so I don't know if this is the best explination for it... what have you guys come up with?

Old Post Sep-17-2003 23:10  Israel
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ProDiGaL
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Earth, Solar System

well in australia, cureently most of the population wasnt born there. Not sure about colors and so forth. But Australia has tightest gun control: No semi auto rifles, and pistols are only for sports shooting. Which leads me to my next point, you cant buy a gun in aus for self defence, you cannot purchase a firearm with the intention to use it on a person. You have to have other reasons which are mainly sports or hunting.

He makes out that gun numbers are irrelevent but i disagree.
I mean having a gun and shooting some one, and not having a gun and not shooting someone, there cant be a connection can there??!!


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Old Post Sep-18-2003 00:39 
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

Ya I'm curious.. if you aussies have a census maybe there can be more info broken down.

Still however, how many murders take place?

The thing I wonder and what the Columbine movie totally neglects is the ammount of murders in a country compared to another (factoring in population)... Any clue what the rate is in Australia?

As to your point however, I would have to disagree. He compared Canada where 10,000,000 ppl have 7,000,000 guns to the US and found much lower murder rate.

Old Post Sep-18-2003 00:58  Israel
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Dj O'Callaghan
The UKTA Triggerman



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Northampton UK

I'll see if I can find some statistics for you. However I know murders involving guns in the UK have gone up by 70% cases when the murderer didn't know the victim i.e hitmen etc have gone up by 30%.

In the bigger cities London, Birmingham and Manchester they probably get 1 or 2 firearm murders a day or every other day, at the beggining of last year a big gangwar broke out and a lot of people got murdered in London it was turning into scenes out of 1920s Chicago.

Gun control here is tight since the Dublaine massacre, however gangs are getting guns, from Eastern Europe, Or the new niche blackmarket in the UK reactivating deactivated guns all that involves is putting a firing pin into a gun and a lot of ppl are obtaining guns that way. UK there is just about 70 million people and I would probably guess 250,000 odd firearms excluding the Miltaries and the Police.


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Old Post Sep-18-2003 01:52  United Kingdom
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ProDiGaL
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Earth, Solar System

yes but he compared canada only, like he declared no canadians lock their doors after he tried 3 doors. Aus population is around 18-19 million, so yes its low and it has a low muder rate, dont know exactly what it is exaclty, but its in the double figures i know for sure (around 70 or 80 from memory)
what i mean is that he made gun numbers seem totally irrrelevent, which is where i beg to differ, i think it does have a part in the problem, its not the source, but its a major player.


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Old Post Sep-18-2003 01:53 
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

Currently I am thinking the two most contribution factors to gun crime are:

Urban Density

Ethnicity ratios

The higher both those figures the higher gun crime... I wish I could do a thesis about that shit and see if its true though

Old Post Sep-18-2003 18:32  Israel
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LiquidX
It's All OvA!



Registered: Mar 2001
Location: In Ur Mind

I see it more like this way.
Well, first of all, you gotta blame some of it to those government representatives ( uhum bushes and republicans ) have faught their teeth in making gun sell easily in the market, something that the opossed party ( democrats ) have tried to tighten that. Eitherway, the US is a country with an avarage of 300,000 million peeps. Its the richests country in the world, with one of the best styles of living, so that means that theres alot of wasted white kidds. Believe me- and this is for what Ive seen.. personal testimony.
I have a friend who lives in this very exclusive city, bunch of rich people ( Boca Raton - For those familiar with Florida ).. well, about everybody there goes to private schools, and everything is much expensier, for the obvious reason that its a rich community. Every single kidd in there was on drugs, into illegal stuff, and a great amount of those kids had guns.. just for fun, they would go to a deserted warehouse and play with them.. not harming or anything, but doing stupid crazy stuff.. sadly enough, a great amount of those rich kidds were involved into some kind of gang groupies.. doing all sorts of bad stuff. So this leads me to believe that the problem with the US is that its easy, and accesible to obtain guns, especially those wasted trashed rich kidds.. although in the case of California, ethnicity does play some role, because of the gangs. But overall, some of the worst shootings and terrorists attacks in the US ( Columbine and Oklahoma ) were all in heavily white sectors, byt white people.


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Old Post Sep-18-2003 21:54  Chile
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rizo
rizoholic



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: sf bay area

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
Urban Density

Ethnicity ratios
yes and no. Oakland, CA a city not so far from me (probaly 40miles), has probaly the highest murder rate at the moment, most of the murders are all related to black gang rivaries. so theres no ethnicity ratios there, however there is urban density. another example maybe my own city, San Jose (silicon valley), CA where theres a large mixture of ethnicity, and we are also very spread out, its like one huge suburb. our murder rate is not high, i think its around 35 a year in a city of one million plus. most of those murders also have nothing to do with ethnicity but drugs/gangs and domestic violence. it is different in every city though.


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Old Post Sep-18-2003 23:07 
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ProDiGaL
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Earth, Solar System

quote:
Originally posted by LiquidX
I see it more like this way.
Well, first of all, you gotta blame some of it to those government representatives ( uhum bushes and republicans ) have faught their teeth in making gun sell easily in the market, something that the opossed party ( democrats ) have tried to tighten that. Eitherway, the US is a country with an avarage of 300,000 million peeps. Its the richests country in the world, with one of the best styles of living, so that means that theres alot of wasted white kidds. Believe me- and this is for what Ive seen.. personal testimony.
I have a friend who lives in this very exclusive city, bunch of rich people ( Boca Raton - For those familiar with Florida ).. well, about everybody there goes to private schools, and everything is much expensier, for the obvious reason that its a rich community. Every single kidd in there was on drugs, into illegal stuff, and a great amount of those kids had guns.. just for fun, they would go to a deserted warehouse and play with them.. not harming or anything, but doing stupid crazy stuff.. sadly enough, a great amount of those rich kidds were involved into some kind of gang groupies.. doing all sorts of bad stuff. So this leads me to believe that the problem with the US is that its easy, and accesible to obtain guns, especially those wasted trashed rich kidds.. although in the case of California, ethnicity does play some role, because of the gangs. But overall, some of the worst shootings and terrorists attacks in the US ( Columbine and Oklahoma ) were all in heavily white sectors, byt white people.

im on your wavelength.
saying easy access to guns is not related to gun murders is outrageous.

im sure a lot of these are commited by unregistered guns..........


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Last edited by ProDiGaL on Sep-19-2003 at 04:08

Old Post Sep-19-2003 03:48 
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JM
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2000
Location:

shooting guns is fun!....

actually, really it's only OK. (i meant shooting at targets at gun shooting range)

basically, a US citizen may get a gun very easily legally, and anybody can get one easily non-legally too. gun control would fail. ppl will still get guns, maybe not as easily, but maybe even more violently.

>JM<

Old Post Sep-21-2003 06:38 
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Orbax
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by LiquidX
I see it more like this way.
Well, first of all, you gotta blame some of it to those government representatives ( uhum bushes and republicans ) have faught their teeth in making gun sell easily in the market, something that the opossed party ( democrats ) have tried to tighten that. Eitherway, the US is a country with an avarage of 300,000 million peeps. Its the richests country in the world, with one of the best styles of living, so that means that theres alot of wasted white kidds. Believe me- and this is for what Ive seen.. personal testimony.
I have a friend who lives in this very exclusive city, bunch of rich people ( Boca Raton - For those familiar with Florida ).. well, about everybody there goes to private schools, and everything is much expensier, for the obvious reason that its a rich community. Every single kidd in there was on drugs, into illegal stuff, and a great amount of those kids had guns.. just for fun, they would go to a deserted warehouse and play with them.. not harming or anything, but doing stupid crazy stuff.. sadly enough, a great amount of those rich kidds were involved into some kind of gang groupies.. doing all sorts of bad stuff. So this leads me to believe that the problem with the US is that its easy, and accesible to obtain guns, especially those wasted trashed rich kidds.. although in the case of California, ethnicity does play some role, because of the gangs. But overall, some of the worst shootings and terrorists attacks in the US ( Columbine and Oklahoma ) were all in heavily white sectors, byt white people.



hehe...yeah...or they were just the most publicized because someone was like a WHITE person did that?! WTF!!!

White people are usually serial killers and very rarely do anyone but minorities commit mass murders. You can look this up, I believe the FBI page has some info on it as well. We discussed this a lot in my criminology courses (pre-law) and most of the court cases we look at tend to follow this trend as well...

Also from most of the murder/shootings i have studied most stem from drug deals, and surrounds. White people tend to traffic in cocaine powder and weed, where as crack cocaine, and pretty much everything else is brought in by non-white foreigners. Yakima A little bit south of where I live (like couple hundred miles) is one of, if not THE, largest heroin or cocaine entrances into the US, it also has about a million meth labs. I have a mexican by ancestry uncle down there and most people there are also mexican because of the large orchard industry.

I also hate sayings its a "white" or "mexican" problem, i was just kind of using your language.

Its a cultural thing. Ghetto culture establishes mob rule and violence, while upper class society looks down on that. My area the average income is 120, 000 a year. Lots of blacks, mexicans, orientals, etc... Every ethnicity is well represented, and most are cool as shit. We ARE human, so you get some assholes. But violence here is nothing. Rich people dont want to do that shit. too much to lose.

The foreign countries #1 dont give a FUCK about the US and its population, and ... fuck im just thinking of alimentary canal smuggles. The cartels take a family hostage and tell the person to fly to US with balloons of drugs shoved up their ass. THey OD on anti-bowel movement meds and then swall and push until they are tight as a fucking drum... one little woman like 4 foot 10 had something like 80 ballons in her body. Sometimes the cartels get iun a hurry though...lots of little airstrips in Miami, FL are found with eviscerated people.

the culture is too blame, not the race/ethnicity.

Old Post Sep-23-2003 17:12  United States
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Izzy
Virtue & Vice



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: TX TA #5

ATLANTA (Reuters) - A report published by the Centers for Disease Control on Thursday found no conclusive evidence that gun control laws help to prevent violent crime, suicides and accidental injuries in the United States.

...

But a national task force of health-care and community experts found "insufficient evidence" that bans on specific guns, waiting periods for gun buyers and other such laws changed the incidence of murder, rape, suicide and other types of violence.

...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ealth_guns_dc_2


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Old Post Oct-03-2003 19:35 
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