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Syntonic
Artcore Addict



Registered: May 2006
Location: Journey...On A...
L.S.G. - Double Vision [new album]





Really like some stuff I'm hearing from samples, and the album versions might be interesting. Not sure how to feel when I really want the low key trancey vibes he's famous for, but this certainly has potential all over it.

Previews and information:

https://www.beatport.com/release/double-vision/2074010



Also for anyone that might have missed, Bonzai Progressive also released Netherworld remixes with part 2 to follow.




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Help me ID these sets:
Sasha - Live @ Logic, Santa Monica, CA 12-21-97 - Groove 103.1 FM
John Digweed - Live @ Axis, Boston 28-07-1997



Old & New Electronic Music Channel

Last edited by Syntonic on Aug-11-2017 at 16:49

Old Post Aug-11-2017 16:32  United States
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Leeds

I don't think it's realistic to expect him to ever make a full-blown trance record ever again. Lieb has struggled to convincingly move on from trance into being a techno producer, but he was never purist and silly enough to lock himself in the trance box. You have to look at this as how he can translate the LSG sound for 2017.

For me, there were two signature aspects to Lieb's trance. One was the spacey pads and harmonies. When he released that "Volpe" double-tracker a year or two back those pads were there, but he had gone with a very soft-footed Guy Mantzur-style rhythm section. It didn't feel right, because the second key aspect of LSG was missing: the chunkiness and spaciousness of the rhythms, which gave them that wonderfully punchy tech-trance feeling. Listening to the sample of "Cepheid" here, I can totally hear that spaciousness. It sounds as close as you'll get to a 2017 approximation of tracks like this:



So yeah, a definite step in the right direction. Quite a few of the dancefloor tracks sound very workable in a set, either in the warm-up or right near the end of the night. Based on those two minute samples, we still don't have a peak-time LSG track for 2017 that thumps in the old way, though.


___________________
Mixes:
> Skipton's Only Prog Night [Warm Up Grooves]
> Welcome To the Future [Driving Progressive]
> Autumn Drive [Progressive]
> The Rebel Alliance [Tech/Progressive]
> The Sunset Session [Everything]

Old Post Aug-11-2017 20:03  England
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paulversuspaul
Inventor of the fist pump



Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Zabriskie Point CA

Am I the only one who doesnt like either of those 2 remixes of netherworld? Man, netherworld in a big sound system, the original, is such a freaking monster of a track. Its like they are trying to get rid of all its energy.


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X-MIX 1 The MFS Trip

This guy needs to come back

Old Post Aug-11-2017 21:23  United States
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SPANIARD
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto,Ontario

quote:
Originally posted by paulversuspaul
Am I the only one who doesnt like either of those 2 remixes of netherworld? Man, netherworld in a big sound system, the original, is such a freaking monster of a track. Its like they are trying to get rid of all its energy.

Agreed completely. It should have been left alone.

Without trying to start a whole debacle and take away from the original topic, I really struggle to remember anyone remixing an epic anthem as well as Oliver Prime did with Netherworld. As chance would have it, I was just listening to it 2 weeks ago completely oblivious to the fact that there were updated versions coming out. Yes, the original is a freaking monster but hearing the Oliver Prime remix on a big sound system is just simply from a different world. J00F dropped it in 2008 near the end of a 6 hour set as the sun started to sneak in and I remember thinking to myself that it's exactly moments like these that I'm involved in the scene.


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quote:
Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
any party from 2003 and back I only remember bits and pieces...i've combined those memories into one awesome party

Old Post Aug-11-2017 22:44  Spain
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Woony
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Berlin

The remixes are crap. I'm not even very fond of all the remasters he put out of the last couple of years, yes they sound more hi-fi but these old LSG tracks live off their grit. This goes for most 90s tracks, remasters rarely actually benefit the work.

The new album is eh but it's certainly better than the absolute garbage he put out in his minimal period.


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June 2018 mix

Old Post Aug-12-2017 12:38 
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Leeds

quote:
Originally posted by paulversuspaul
Am I the only one who doesnt like either of those 2 remixes of netherworld? Man, netherworld in a big sound system, the original, is such a freaking monster of a track. Its like they are trying to get rid of all its energy.


One thing I almost wrote above regarding the lack of peak-time tracks is that he's struggling to recreate the old energy. I can't tell if it's deliberate of it's a problem of technique. If you made a '90s era trance track but at 123 it just won't have any energy. The techniques have changed a lot since then.


___________________
Mixes:
> Skipton's Only Prog Night [Warm Up Grooves]
> Welcome To the Future [Driving Progressive]
> Autumn Drive [Progressive]
> The Rebel Alliance [Tech/Progressive]
> The Sunset Session [Everything]

Old Post Aug-12-2017 13:04  England
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MSZ
WishICouldMakeGoodMusic



Registered: Jun 2005
Location: 1987

Enjoying the 2017 main mix of Netherworld, reminds me of a lesser Holden effort from back in the day. Netherworld was always too plury for me though anyway.

Old Post Aug-12-2017 13:47  Canada
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Woony
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Berlin

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
One thing I almost wrote above regarding the lack of peak-time tracks is that he's struggling to recreate the old energy. I can't tell if it's deliberate of it's a problem of technique. If you made a '90s era trance track but at 123 it just won't have any energy. The techniques have changed a lot since then.


Even if he'd produce tracks at 140 they still wouldn't have the same energy because they are deliberately EQd to death. If you listen to the old records, they just ooze that dirty, gritty midrange, which also makes them a bit muddy feeling but that's where the energy lies. The new tracks have very controlled midrange and very little frequency overlap, which gives them more punch in the transients and makes the drums cut through the mix but in return it just makes them sound cold, thin and empty because the mix lacks the warm buzzing mids. If you cut too much of the lows and midrange in your drums and synths you cut the tracks balls - while the low cut mania is a problem common to much of modern club music, it's especially obvious if you have someone like Lieb who used to make tracks with slamming midrange. It's not even an analog/digital thing, there are many late 90s/early 2000s tracks made on crappy digital synths and crappy early VSTs that sound more slamming and "analogue" than modern records made on top of the line analogue and outboard gear. I think the "spaciousness" you are talking about in the old records is part of the same problem, the old ones have a thick noisefloor and delay/reverb tails that go pretty far down, the new ones have very little going on in the back of the mix in comparison.

For the record, this isn't necessarily an either/or thing, there are a lot of modern "oldschool" sounding house records that manage to strike a nice compromise between juicy midrange and enough cleaning up and seperation to make the drums cut and the transients punchy.


___________________
June 2018 mix

Last edited by Woony on Aug-12-2017 at 14:43

Old Post Aug-12-2017 14:28 
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Leeds

I think there's more to it than just the EQ/mixdown, though. I think he's struggling to write modern basslines that provide thrust, rather than just using the old off-beat one-note trance bass many of his old classics relied on. That would sound too dated today, and probably pretty weird at a low tempo, but in their place he's using almost dubby bass motifs.


___________________
Mixes:
> Skipton's Only Prog Night [Warm Up Grooves]
> Welcome To the Future [Driving Progressive]
> Autumn Drive [Progressive]
> The Rebel Alliance [Tech/Progressive]
> The Sunset Session [Everything]

Old Post Aug-12-2017 14:55  England
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paulversuspaul
Inventor of the fist pump



Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Zabriskie Point CA

I think both of you have hit on separate but equally important points. I think its probably a mix of both issues most likely.

One thing i would add, is that this issue isnt just a lieb one. I personally see the same problems with a lot of those proggy records that both digweed and sashas label put out. For a while I assumed it was deliberate as a lot of those guys maybe thought those driving tracks perhaps just sounded too trancey or prog housey. Since both of those genres were very uncool for a long time, this makes sense if you are trying to prove that you dont want to be associated with a certain scene or aesthetic. But, clearly we are living in an era where techno djs feel comfortable enough to play one of those old 90s tracks in a set. So i find it even odder now that a guy like lieb who used to make techno tracks that sound like something that just got released in germany just with higher BPMs cant find a way of updating his tracks to fit into the modern techno scene but instead makes something which sounds like it was only meant for home listening or to be played at a lounge.

By the way, slowing old 90s tracks like LSG is really crazy. Some of those tracks sound really good in the low 120s and some sound awful. I am still not sure why that is the case. Whats really weird, is that some of the more PLUR trance records made in germany, especially the MFS stuff put out, sounds really good at lower BPMs. Creates an almost melancholic uplifting melody. With some small production tweakings they even sound like something Dixon might play just with way more stuff going on in them. But almost all the LSG tracks, like LSG, sound awful at the much lower BPM.


___________________
X-MIX 1 The MFS Trip

This guy needs to come back

Old Post Aug-12-2017 19:35  United States
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Leeds

quote:
Originally posted by paulversuspaul
I personally see the same problems with a lot of those proggy records that both digweed and sashas label put out.


Well, both Bedrock and LNOE (and their owners) are way more tech house than prog these days. The emphasis is more on wonky, angular tracks with nasty twisted drug sounds than on driving forward momentum. With the odd exception, I don't really consider either of them "proggy" labels.

If there's one guy on Bedrock unafraid to make driving old-school tunes, it's Montel. Just about every tune that guy makes goes straight in the crate for me.


___________________
Mixes:
> Skipton's Only Prog Night [Warm Up Grooves]
> Welcome To the Future [Driving Progressive]
> Autumn Drive [Progressive]
> The Rebel Alliance [Tech/Progressive]
> The Sunset Session [Everything]

Old Post Aug-12-2017 20:47  England
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paulversuspaul
Inventor of the fist pump



Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Zabriskie Point CA

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
If there's one guy on Bedrock unafraid to make driving old-school tunes, it's Montel. Just about every tune that guy makes goes straight in the crate for me.



Fuck that is good. I have to admit, at this point i dont pay much attention to prog but i think i might have to. You got any recs for DJs who play stuff like this live? And any underground labels that release stuff like this?


___________________
X-MIX 1 The MFS Trip

This guy needs to come back

Old Post Aug-12-2017 20:59  United States
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