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AlphaStarred
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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY

quote:
Originally posted by Trance-M
'Messing around' was what they did for sure with Hardcore and Gabber and very likely high or at least still high from the weekend.

But what are examples of popular tracks that were made after 'messing around' in trance or maybe techno?


I just gave you an example of techno. Many early techno records were recorded in this way, some of which have become 'classics.'

Another example of this was In Sync's (classic) Storm, in the artist's own words:

"There are only 4 instruments in the track - all Roland, 2 SH-101s, 1 TR-808 and 1 TR-909. There was no hardware sequencer either. Everything was synched using the drum machine triggers. The notes were recorded on the SH-101 onboard sequencers, so the tune was very limited. Also, one of the SH-101s was not working properly. I could not record the same note twice in the sequencer for some reason. You can't really set up a more basic studio than I used for that track. The track was a production nightmare in reality. I am surprised it ever made it to vinyl. There is tape noise on the recording where the cassette deck level was way too low. But....it does sound like rain. It all went wrong but ended up right it seems".

Then there were classics which were literally made with only 2 machines: a drum machine and a monosynth (with the occasional fx unit) (e.g. Phuture's Acid Trax, some tracks on Universal Indicator Red, 303 Nation - Seis, among others).

In the end, most electronic music is made by 'messing around,' anyway, whether it's in a big studio or not. It's not like an artist generally has a clear picture or idea of what he's going to make - he sits down, gets to work, experiments (messes around) with the machines, finds a sound, atmosphere he likes, etc. and takes it from there. It's not rocket science.

quote:
Is it enough to keep vinyl stores alive eventually or just a handfull? The artist probably don't really benefit from it as it's not enough to have sort of an income.


Well, new vinyl shop have opened up in New York (as I'm sure they have elsewhere, too) due to the vinyl resurgence, along with new pressing plants. A decade ago, there were only a handful of vinyl shops here, likely struggling to make a business, and often pretty devoid of customers. Along with this resurgence, plenty of new female djs and collectors have come onto the scene, as well, which was hardly the case years ago. When I recently visited A-1 Records in NYC, I've never seen it so crowded before, and there were women digging for vinyls, as well, which I've never seen years ago, when vinyl was all but dead.

No, the artist likely does not make enough of an income from vinyl releases alone, but thanks to the internet and platforms such as Soundcloud, many of these artists are able to gain exposure, and are touring, getting promotions from famous magazines, etc. This was hardly the case just a decade ago. I've spoken to artists like Shawn O'Sullivan, Collin Strange and Low Tape, who were hardly known just a few years ago, and now they're getting gigs left and right and releases from major labels, all thanks to the internet.

You seem to be only focusing on whether or not an artist is making a living from releasing vinyl, completely ignoring all other things that the vinyl resurgence has brought about, including introducing a new generation of youngsters to music styles that were all but dead just a decade ago, when all they knew (and heard) was dubstep and electro-house.

Last edited by AlphaStarred on Feb-04-2018 at 19:55

Old Post Feb-04-2018 18:22  Israel
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Trance-M
Since 1994 tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Limburg, Netherlands

quote:
Originally posted by AlphaStarred
I just gave you an example of techno. Many early techno records were recorded in this way, some of which have become 'classics.'


There must have been many tracks made that way in the 90's, but I was wondering if there were such tracks that became more popular.
This one was entirely made on an Amiga, but I don't think it was very popular, although I have it on a compilation somewhere:
Obsessive - Tune In Turn Out (1993)

quote:

You seem to be only focusing on whether or not an artist is making a living from releasing vinyl, completely ignoring all other things that the vinyl resurgence has brought about, including introducing a new generation of youngsters to music styles that were all but dead just a decade ago, when all they knew (and heard) was dubstep and electro-house.

Indeed I was, as I was comparing it to sales in the 90's. But those numbers also included maxi-cd's. It's good if some benefit from the resurgence, also for the maker of The Wheel: The Wheel


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Old Post Feb-04-2018 19:57  Netherlands
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AlphaStarred
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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY

quote:
Originally posted by Trance-M
...but I was wondering if there were such tracks that became more popular.


I just listed some of the more popular tracks for you. Did you not read my post?

Another example of a classic/more popular track was Random XS's Give Your Body, using just a few machines.

According to the artist:

"The track was not recorded in two bits, but in one take. The pause, created by pressing stop & start on the TR-808 was not very well timed. No editing of any kind was done afterwards, simply because I didn't had the tools for that."

Last edited by AlphaStarred on Feb-04-2018 at 20:13

Old Post Feb-04-2018 20:01  Israel
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Trance-M
Since 1994 tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Limburg, Netherlands

quote:
Originally posted by AlphaStarred
I just listed some of the more popular tracks for you. Did you not read my post?


More popular? I was thinking of tracks as popular as e.g. Drax - Amphetamine, LFO - LFO or 808 - State Cubik.


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Old Post Feb-04-2018 20:44  Netherlands
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AlphaStarred
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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY

quote:
Originally posted by Trance-M
More popular? I was thinking of tracks as popular as e.g. Drax - Amphetamine, LFO - LFO or 808 - State Cubik.


I didn't think the point was to compare classics with classics.

Phuture - Acid Trax is not popular (and influential) enough for you?

Old Post Feb-04-2018 21:04  Israel
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Trance-M
Since 1994 tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Limburg, Netherlands

quote:
Originally posted by AlphaStarred
I didn't think the point was to compare classics with classics.

Phuture - Acid Trax is not popular (and influential) enough for you?


Acid house wasn't very popular over here, not like in the US. After it hit the UK we got to hear some of it here as well, but in general I don't think we can compare it with the US popularity.
Influential Acid Trax obviously was as it's one or the first Acid House tracks. Over here Hithouse ‎– Jack To The Sound Of The Underground or Starlight ‎– Numero Uno were hits though. Although more poppy very influenced by the US Acid House.

I wasn't comparing, I just was wondering which 'messing around' tracks became very popular. Popular over here didn't mean they were popular in the US and the other way around. I'm not aware what was popular in the US at the time, late 80's, early 90's.


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Old Post Feb-04-2018 21:57  Netherlands
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AlphaStarred
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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY

quote:
Originally posted by Trance-M
I wasn't comparing, I just was wondering which 'messing around' tracks became very popular. Popular over here didn't mean they were popular in the US and the other way around. I'm not aware what was popular in the US at the time, late 80's, early 90's.


It's all mostly 'messing around,' either way, as I mentioned, whether in a big studio or not. Most of these artists had no formal music theory training, etc. And even those who did, there's no 'right' or 'wrong' way to make a track, so it didn't matter much. We're not talking about classical music here.

Joey Beltram made Energy Flash when he was 19 (no idea if at an expensive studio or not), and as you know it gained recognition and popularity both in the US and in Europe. I'm pretty sure he had no formal musical training, either. There were others (in the US) like Damon Wild, Adam X, Frankie Bones, Woody Mcbride, Freddie Fresh, etc. many of whom made tracks in their own homes and limited basement 'studios,' like the one in the Massturbator recording session, and paved the way for the club/techno scene in NY and the Midwest, and eventually gained recognition and popularity in Europe.

I've spoken to Joey Jupiter, whom I bought my first 606 from, and he was part of the NY techno scene here, back in the day. He told me he'd sit down and often make a track the same night, often not using more than one or two drum machines, a synth, fx unit, cheap sampler, etc. He would deliberately set the levels on his Mackie mixer into the red, to get that dirty, distorted hard sound. They were all 'messing around,' really, with some working from bigger studios, and some from their homes. Most I'm pretty sure had no clue about music engineering or professional mastering (whatever that is). Some tracks I imagine would go straight to vinyl, while others were mastered either by the artists themselves or sent to a mastering service by the label owner.

I would imagine many Chicago and Detroit artists worked in a similar way. Woony mentioned Jeff Mills's Waveform Transmission Vol. 1, which became popular both in Europe and in the US. Whether he worked out of an expensive studio or not, I've no idea, but if he claimed to have produced several tracks on the album within the space of a day, you know he's basically 'messing around,' whatever that may mean to you.

Last edited by AlphaStarred on Feb-05-2018 at 04:34

Old Post Feb-05-2018 00:01  Israel
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Woony
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Berlin

quote:
Originally posted by AlphaStarred
Whether he worked out of an expensive studio or not, I've no idea, but if he claimed to have produced several tracks on the album within the space of a day, you know he's basically 'messing around,' whatever that may mean to you.


I think it was just a DX7, a 909, a 303 and a 4track recorder.

As for "messing around", I think trance guys tended to have bigger studios and more technical knowledge because there was a higher technical barrier required to make it. You could make a techno track with just a 909 and a synth. But meanwhile, as the stuff on MFS and Harthouse etc. became more opulent and anthemic you basically needed a lot of kit just to get enough synths, sequencers, FX, mixing channels etc. Very few techno/house guys had a studio like the one in the video that Trance-M posted during the early 90s. It seems like many of these trance guys had already experience working in commercial studios during the 80s.

Just another anecdote, but I saw this documentary on Bonzai records recently and there MIKE said that he basically made Universal Nation within a day just messing about. All the Bonzai stuff was made really quickly because they shared the same studio and the next maybe someone different would come in so you had to get it done before the morning. From the pictures they had a pretty decent studio although not as professionally done as the Low Spirit studio.


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Last edited by Woony on Feb-05-2018 at 10:46

Old Post Feb-05-2018 10:27 
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AlphaStarred
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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY

quote:
Originally posted by Woony
You could make a techno track with just a 909 and a synth.


Or with just a drum machine (and maybe an fx unit) - Plastikman/Circuit Breaker comes to mind.

Old Post Feb-06-2018 04:54  Israel
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Lownoise
tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2018
Location: Amsterdam

Just to mention a few, because I can go on for ages otherwise. I know the most I mention are early millenium ones but for me there like late 90's cause of the youthsentiment they have for me. Also I think the best trance was produced between 2000 and 2005:

Paul van Dyk - For An Angel
Blank & Jones - Cream
Blank & Jones - Desire
Blank & Jones - Nightclubbing (Wippenberg Remix)
Blank & Jones - After Love
Blank & Jones - Beyond Time
Blank & Jones - The Nightfly
Blank & Jones - After Love
Blank & Jones - Summer Sun
Tukan - Light A Rainbow (Greencourt Remix)
DJ Shog - This Is My Sound (CJ Stone Remix)
Marc Aurel - Running
CJ Stone - Into The Sea (Greencourt Remix)
CJ Stone - The Sun (Goes Down)
NU NRG - Dreamland
Svenson & Gielen - The Beauty Of Silence
Svenson - Sunlight Theory (O-Zone Original Mix)
Three Drives - Sunset On Ibiza
Rank 1 - Airwave
Kai Tracid - Life Is Too Short
Alex Barlett - Amnesia (Greencourt Remix)
Out of Grace - Obscura
Cosmic Gate - The Truth
Cosmic Gate - Melt To The Ocean
Cosmic Gate - The Wave
Cosmic Gate - Exploration Of Space
Cosmic Gate - Fire Wire
Yahel - Devotion (Armin Mix)
The Mystery - The Mystery
Paul Oakenfold - Southern Sun (Tiesto Remix)
Dumonde - God Music
Dumonde - Just Feel Free
PUSH - Strange World
Schwarze Puppen - Tanz

Pfff & thousands of others!


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Old Post Feb-11-2018 18:29  Netherlands
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Light The Fuse
Training Tranceaddicts



Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Fist Pumping, Au

DaHool - Met her at the Love Parade
JX - You Belong to Me
Push - Universal Nation
Robert Miles - Children
Legend B - Lost in Love
Age of love - Age of Love
Jam & Spoon - Ride in the night
OT Quartet - Hold that Sucker Down (builds like a skyscraper)
Brainbug - Nightmare
Drax - Amphetamine
Marmion - Shoenberg
Quench - Dreams
Faithless - Insomnia
Usura - Open Your mind
FSOL - Papua New Guinea
Itchee & Scratchee - Sweetness & Light
San Transisco - Punchanella
Cafe Del Mar - Energy 52
Nalin & Kane - BeachBall
Delegate - Want you (to stay)
Yeke yeke - Mory Kante


As a kid maturing into a teen in the 90s in Melbourne this was the Trance that captured a generation. - My generation - the actual trance generation.
Enjoy those tunes. I fuckin did. These tunes got cained around my parts - even at underage parties - many times years after they were released.


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Last edited by Light The Fuse on Mar-09-2018 at 14:52

Old Post Mar-09-2018 14:24  Australia
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

quote:
Originally posted by Light The Fuse
DaHool - Met her at the Love Parade
JX - You Belong to Me
Push - Universal Nation
Robert Miles - Children
Legend B - Lost in Love
Age of love - Age of Love
Jam & Spoon - Ride in the night
OT Quartet - Hold that Sucker Down (builds like a skyscraper)
Brainbug - Nightmare
Drax - Amphetamine
Marmion - Shoenberg
Quench - Dreams
Faithless - Insomnia
Usura - Open Your mind
FSOL - Papua New Guinea
Itchee & Scratchee - Sweetness & Light
San Transisco - Punchanella
Cafe Del Mar - Energy 52
Nalin & Kane - BeachBall
Delegate - Want you (to stay)
Yeke yeke - Mory Kante


As a kid maturing into a teen in the 90s in Melbourne this was the Trance that captured a generation. - My generation - the actual trance generation.
Enjoy those tunes. I fuckin did. These tunes got cained around my parts - even at underage parties - many times years after they were released.


To be honest, this tracklist looks a lot like what I grew up with in London. Interesting that Melbourne tastes were virtually identical.

Personally I wouldn't class some of these as "influential" though, moreso they were just bog tracks (Brainbug, Itchee & Scratchee, Da Hool etc). They didn;t really change anything or stand out as a prototype for future releases.

A couple in there were bona find influencers such as Age of Love and Quench and I daresay Yeke Yeke.

Old Post Mar-09-2018 19:32 
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