Originally posted by Swamper
This argument is never going to end.
Basically, from this thread and other such threads over the years, 'up and coming' producers who DJ are automatically seen at a lower level than those who strictly 'DJ'. To the complainers, they look at the DJ's experience level, how they fit in within their genre, or simply the lingering memory of how pitiful that producer-turned-DJ's sets are/were when he/she started 'DJ'ing - all these affect their perception of that producer (or any producer) in a DJ role. Now, over time, if said producer comes out with less tracks and instead focuses more on DJing -- then maybe those criticisms will fade -- as long as their DJing career is succesful -- if it's not, ppl bitch and tell them to stick to producing. Just the same, if they can manage to produce great tracks AND rock the crowd during their sets then they'll also be accepted.
Enter a poll - a strict 'DJ' you've long respected (and admired) is suddenly bumped down a few levels -- then someone (a producer turned part-time DJ) who you interpret to be less skilled attains a ranking that you feel is undeserved. You get caught up in emotion and bitch about the accuracy of such polls and then get at the ready to bitch at anyone who dares disagree with your views.
Since the poll is simply a quantitative representation of opinion it is impossible to argue the merits of what a particular ranking indicates -- other than saying "more people voted for DJ X over DJ Y" - that's it, that's all!
That makes sense. But why not have a producer poll run simultaneously in an effort to limit these types of debates?
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Oct-22-2007 20:22
Redd
do_Ob
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: back west
quote:
Originally posted by element-y
Well suck at djing is seen in different ways. There is skill with the tables themselves like effects and fades and transitions, and then there is track selection. Track selection is my pick.
"Good track selection" as in you'd vote for someone who has an OK track selection when it comes to build, flow etc. + playing his own stuff, rather than someone who has a superb track selection not playing any of his own productions.
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Oct-22-2007 20:23
element-y
!Shakawkaw!
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco and Boulder
Agree. But yea, this debate isnt going anywhere because it pretty much comes down to why someone who someone feels isnt the best is the best.
My point through all this is people view what makes a great dj in different ways.
Oct-22-2007 20:24
UWM
Sweetastic
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Here
I just think it's pretty awesome that you've been to 4 WMCs and still can't discern between production and DJ talent.
Until I read your sig I thought this was all coming from someone who had just gotten into EDM.
Oct-22-2007 20:26
RJT
ReTAired
Registered: Oct 2004
Location:
quote:
Originally posted by element-y
Well suck at djing is seen in different ways. There is skill with the tables themselves like effects and fades and transitions, and then there is track selection. Track selection is my pick.
There you go. "Track selection" is a quality you can attribute to DJ's, "good production skills" are qualities you attribute to a producer.
The only gripe/difference here is that some of us were discussing producers who do not DJ (some who may not even perform live in any capacity) yet still appear on lists like this and DJ Mag year in and year out. In a world where the words "DJ poll" meant a poll of "DJ's", producers who aren't DJ's wouldn't appear on the list.
And the debate over whether or not "new DJ's" warrant their position on the list is completely irrelevant because:
quote:
Originally posted by Swamper
Since the poll is simply a quantitative representation of opinion it is impossible to argue the merits of what a particular ranking indicates -- other than saying "more people voted for DJ X over DJ Y" - that's it, that's all!
Oct-22-2007 20:36
element-y
!Shakawkaw!
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco and Boulder
quote:
Originally posted by Redd
"Good track selection" as in you'd vote for someone who has an OK track selection when it comes to build, flow etc. + playing his own stuff, rather than someone who has a superb track selection not playing any of his own productions.
Agreed to the post by stopngo
But no, when i mean good i mean great, whatever.
How i see it:
DJ 1: Amazing tracks of other djs plus some of their own with so so transitions
DJ2: Amazing tracks with good transitions
I pick DJ 1 beacuse of the added seeing the man behind the track appeal.
Oct-22-2007 20:39
Redd
do_Ob
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: back west
quote:
I just think it's pretty awesome that you've been to 4 WMCs and still can't discern between production and DJ talent.
In his defence there is a difference between not being able to discern and just choosing to not do it
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Oct-22-2007 20:43
Yohan
Be Progressive. Go Deeper
Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan
quote:
Originally posted by element-y
love the attacks. Keep them coming. Great way to argue a point right?
I could give a shit about the 1-2 minute transitions a dj pulls using filters and faders and effects. It comes down to the tracks they play. And if a producer plays a bunch of killer tracks, order doesnt matter because all tracks are good. There is no need for a slow start to a high end. One by one they all kick ass. When you leave an event, people ask what tracks that dj played that were his - like did prdyz play any pryda tracks... not did he transition well from track to track. That is the second question asked. I dont step into a club and when i hear a transition coming i focus so hard to pick up the transition. Hell, everyone cheers when the transition ends and when the actual song begins that they want. So im saing for many and myself, its the track seletion not order. If every track is great, the set is great. If this is a producer playing their tracks live, i go to support the tracks the producer made and not his djing skills. He just HAS TO dj to be able to play them himself/herself. So with tiesto and pvd and armin and all, that you all complain about, people voted because they feel the tracks kicked ass one by one, and not who used filters this way and that. If producers soley gave tracks to "djs" and didnt want to play them themselves, then dj polls woiuld truly be about dj skills and not track selection because its all in the hands of the dj to pick what tracks from producers to play.
lol. for you, a monkey could be good dj as long as it can push a button and it plays good tunes.
for you, a dj could just stand in front of the dj booth a play a premix cd because technical skills don't matter, as long as you hear good tunes in a club
for you, oakey could be the greatest dj in the world, as long as you can overlook the trainwrecks and oakey keeps playing good tunes
for you, all the people who go nuts during sasha or digweed or zabiela who play 'boring' tunes and then they drop a bomb must be total idiots
Originally posted by UWM
I just think it's pretty awesome that you've been to 4 WMCs and still can't discern between production and DJ talent.
yeah right. This was the first year I missed but I can guarantee you it was not "GREAT".
If he's been there 4 times he should know it was GREAT 04 and 05... not 07
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Oct-22-2007 21:00
RJT
ReTAired
Registered: Oct 2004
Location:
quote:
Originally posted by Sykonee
Methinks Swamper just enjoys watching the chaos ensue. Him running the Top 250 DJ Poll is probably akin to a kid tossing rocks through a bee's nest.
One time I did that with hornets and got stung 11 times.
Oct-22-2007 21:12
noikeee
play it loud
Registered: Apr 2002
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