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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > September 11th Attacks - Do You Think It Was a Conspiracy?
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
pkc's socialist hands would never want to hang on to occrider's conservative balls


That was just a little bit too much information if I might say so myself.

Old Post Oct-24-2008 11:18  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

A little off-topic but I like the track that plays in this first video.

Does anyone have an ID for it?

quote:



Hani Hanjour must have been extremely talented to have pulled off such amazing maneuvers in that huge plane.

With that being the case, I wonder why his flight instructors were so afraid to fly with him in a Cessna?

quote:
A Trainee Noted for Incompetence
By JIM YARDLEY

Published: May 4, 2002


Although the authorities say none of the 19 hijackers on Sept. 11 were tied to an F.B.I. intelligence alert issued by an agent in Arizona two months earlier, one hijacker, Hani Hanjour, had come to the Federal Aviation Administration's attention earlier last year, when he trained in Phoenix.

Mr. Hanjour, who investigators contend piloted the airliner that crashed into the Pentagon, was reported to the aviation agency in February 2001 after instructors at his flight school in Phoenix had found his piloting skills so shoddy and his grasp of English so inadequate that they questioned whether his pilot's license was genuine.

Records show a Hani Hanjour obtained a license in 1999 in Scottsdale, Ariz. Previous and sometimes contradictory reports said he failed in 1996 and 1997 to obtain a license at other schools.

"The staff thought he was a very nice guy, but they didn't think his English was up to level," said Marilyn Ladner, a vice president at the Pan Am International Flight Academy, which operated the center in Phoenix. Ms. Ladner said that the F.A.A. examined Mr. Hanjour's credentials and found them legitimate and that an inspector, by coincidence, attended a class with Mr. Hanjour. The inspector also offered to find an interpreter to help Mr. Hanjour, she said.

"He ended up observing Hani in class," Ms. Ladner added, "though that was not his original reason for being there."

Company officials briefed members of Congress about the case, including Representative James L. Oberstar, Democrat of Minnesota, who made public some of its general details in December.

The aviation agency did not return a call for comment.

Pan Am International, one of the largest pilot schools in the nation, also operated the flight school in Eagan, Minn., near Minneapolis, where the instructors' suspicions led to the arrest of Zacarias Moussaoui, the man whom the authorities have said was intended to be the 20th hijacker.

Ms. Ladner said the Phoenix staff never suspected that Mr. Hanjour was a hijacker but feared that his skills were so weak that he could pose a safety hazard if he flew a commercial airliner.

"There was no suspicion as far as evildoing," Ms. Ladner said. "It was more of a very typical instructional concern that 'you really shouldn't be in the air.' "

A former employee of the school said that the staff initially made good-faith efforts to help Mr. Hanjour and that he received individual instruction for a few days. But he was a poor student. On one written problem that usually takes 20 minutes to complete, Mr. Hanjour took three hours, the former employee said, and he answered incorrectly.

Ultimately, administrators at the school told Mr. Hanjour that he would not qualify for the advanced certificate. But the ex-employee said Mr. Hanjour continued to pay to train on a simulator for Boeing 737 jets. "He didn't care about the fact that he couldn't get through the course," the ex-employee said.

Staff members characterized Mr. Hanjour as polite, meek and very quiet. But most of all, the former employee said, they considered him a very bad pilot.

"I'm still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon," the former employee said. "He could not fly at all."


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...756C0A9649C8B63


quote:
Hani Hanjour

Obtained a commercial pilot's license in April 1999 from the Federal Aviation Administration. The license expired six months later because he failed to complete a required medical exam. In 1996, he received flight training for a few months at a private school in Scottsdale, Ariz., but did not finish the course because his instructors thought he was not proficient enough. He listed his address as a post office box in Taife, Saudi Arabia, but he also has been linked to addresses in San Diego and Hollywood, Fla. His name was not on the American Airlines manifest for the flight because he may not have had a ticket.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr.../hijackers.html

Old Post Oct-24-2008 11:36  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Ben Fountain, 42, a financial analyst with Fireman's Fund, was coming out of the Chambers Street Station, headed for his office on the 47th floor of the south tower.

How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010914...74592-5,00.html

Old Post Oct-24-2008 11:54  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

How quickly people seem to forget these things.

quote:
Louis Freeh Charges 9/11 Commission Cover-Up

NewsMax.com Wires
Thursday, Nov. 17, 2005



Former FBI Director Louis J. Freeh slammed the 9/11 Commission Thursday saying it ignored – or "summarily rejected" – the most critical piece of intelligence that could have prevented the horrific attacks of September 11, 2001.

Writing in the Wall Street Journal's opinion page, Freeh gave a blistering review of the Commission and says new revelations indicate it is "a good time for the country to make some assessments of the 9/11 Commission itself."

The former Bureau Director, who resigned his position just months before Sept. 11, 2001, points out that the U.S. government had learned of the identity of Mohammed Atta the year prior to the attacks. Atta was one of the ringleaders of the group, and piloted an American Airlines plane that slammed into one of the Twin Towers.

Freeh recounts that military intelligence operation code-named "Able Danger" concluded in February 2000 that military experts had identified Atta as an al-Qaida agent operating in the U.S.

"Subsequently, military officers assigned to Able Danger were prevented from sharing this critical information with FBI agents," Freeh writes. "Why?" he ponders, suggesting the failure to share such intelligence may be a smoking gun pointing at federal malfeasance in the case.

Freeh maintains that the Able Danger intelligence, if confirmed, is "undoubtedly the most relevant fact of the entire post-9/11 inquiry . . . Yet the 9/11 Commission inexplicably concluded that it "was not historically significant."

Two members of the House, Curt Weldon (R-Pa.) and Dan Burton (R-Ind.), have reported that shortly after the 9/11 attacks they provided then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley with a "chart" displaying pre-attack information about al-Qaida that had been collected by Able Danger.

But a spokesperson for the White House said that "a search of National Security Council files had failed to produce such a chart."

The final 9/11 Commission report, released on July 22, 2004, concluded that "American intelligence agencies were unaware of Mr. Atta until the day of the attacks."

Writes Freeh: "This now looks to be embarrassingly wrong."

In fact, Freeh discloses that 10 days before the report was released, commission staffers met with a Navy officer who said that Able Danger had identified Atta as an al-Qaida member and told the Commission the unit "had identified Mohammed Atta to be a member of an al Qaeda cell located in Brooklyn."

But the commission determined that "the officer's account was not sufficiently reliable to warrant revision of the report or further investigation.

Said Freeh: "This dismissive and apparently unsupported conclusion would have us believe that a key piece of evidence was summarily rejected in less than 10 days without serious investigation . . . "No wonder the 9/11 families were outraged by these revelations and called for a ‘new' commission to investigate."

Though Freeh never blames any Clinton administration officials by name, responsibility for the intelligence failure would squarely fall on the Clinton administration as Able Danger's information was uncovered before George Bush became president.

Congressman Weldon, who has led Congressional efforts to shed light on the Able Danger claims, alleges that Jamie Gorelick, one of the Sept. 11 Commissioners, prevented the full committee from learning of Able Danger's crucial information. Gorelick has served as deputy attorney general during the Clinton administration.

"There's a cover up here," Weldon said. "It's clear and unequivocal." Freeh argues the Able Danger information requires a new inquiry. He also praised the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), for examining some of these matters.

Specter said at one hearing: "If Mr. Atta and other 9/11 terrorists were identified before the attacks, it would be a very serious breach not to have that information passed along ... We ought to get to the bottom of it."

Freeh writes in the Journal: "Indeed we should. "The Joint Intelligence Committees should reconvene and, in addition to Able Danger team members, we should have the 9/11 commissioners appear as witnesses so the families can hear their explanation why this doesn't matter."


http://www.newsmax.com/archives/art...17/122900.shtml



quote:
The truth about Zelikow and the Sept. 11 cover-up commission

Wednesday, October 20, 2004


By CAROLE BROUILLET


Philip Zelikow will speak at Kresge Auditorium, today, from 4:15 to 5:30 p.m. We plan to protest the Sept. 11 cover-up and to raise questions about his role as executive director of the 9-11 Commission and the Commission’s report.

Zelikow, a national security adviser to both Bush administrations and a principal author of the official 9-11 Commission Report, was part of Bush’s transition team for the National Security Council after the 2000 election. He was appointed to the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board a month after the Sept. 11 2001 attacks.

The Family Steering Committee called for his resignation because of his obvious conflicts of interests.

While Sept. 11 has been used to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, shred the Constitution and Bill of Rights, construct a global police state, enrich weapons manufacturers and seize oil assets, there have been no convictions in any courts of law supporting the government conspiracy theory, particularly the Saddam Hussein / Al Qaeda link.

The 9-11 Commission failed to mention or address the multiple war games / exercises that were being conducted that day, out of the White House. As many as five war game drills were in process, some involving hijacked airliners, a plane crashing into a building, some involving false blips deliberately inserted onto FAA and military radar screens.

One exercise pulled significant fighter resources away from the Northeastern United States on Sept. 11.

These exercises involved North American Air Defense Command, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Canadian Air Force, the CIA and the National Reconnaissance Office.

Coincidentally, in New York City, massive preparations were underway for a biochemical attack drill involving FEMA, the Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management, the FBI, the U.S. Department of Justice, Weill Medical College, the N.Y. Deptartment of Health, the N.Y. Fire Department, the N.Y. Police Department, the American Red Cross and the Port Authority.

The Secret Service and Cheney’s overseeing role during the events of Sept. 11 were overlooked. This was documented in Michael Ruppert’s new book “Crossing the Rubicon – The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil.”

The Commissioners and Zelikow had deep conflicts of interest and many reasons to cover up the truth about Sept. 11.

They are now engaged in a public relations effort to sell the official narrative and the war on terrorism. Both the official inquiry and the Commission’s parameters were to support the official story and justify the creation of Homeland Security Department.

Homeland Security in German is “geheimstadt politza,” which during World War II was abbreviated to Gestapo. Do Americans really believe a “Gestapo” will make us safer?

The Stanford Institute for International Studies is sponsoring Zelikow’s talk, but the Department of Homeland Security has awarded a 15-month $1.65-million contract to CISAC and the Stanford Institute for International Studies to conduct research on how national and local agencies improve the design and evaluation of future terrorist exercises of national and local response systems.

The DHS research contract resulted from CISAC’s observation of last year’s spring State Department-DHS-sponsored, full-scale exercise called TOPOFF2, designed to prepare national, state and local officials to respond to potential terrorist attacks within the United States.

The United States has a long history of training terrorists and launching covert operations throughout the world.

Terrorism allows states to declare emergencies, label all opposition as terrorists and reduce civil rights.


Carol Brouillet is an organizer for the International Inquiry into 9-11, a group that is responsible for exposing information about Sept. 11.


http://daily.stanford.edu/tempo?pag...ry=0001_article

Old Post Oct-24-2008 12:01  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

Ten good reasons for not believing in the Free-Fall Pancaking Collapse Theory

1) How does material from the top of the building reach the ground at nearly the rate of free-fall if it must not only crush the intact structure below, but also overcome the inertia of the stationary mass of each of the many floors that must be encountered on the way down? In order for this to happen without substantially slowing down, each of these structural masses would have to be accelerated up to the rate of free-fall almost instantly, a physical impossibility.

2) How is it possible for a gravitational collapse to create a blast wave capable of shattering windows in buildings 400 ft away?

3) How is it possible for a gravitational collapse to eject multi-story sections of heavy steel perimeter columns to distances of up to 500 ft (more than one and a half football fields)?

4) How could a pancaking collapse cause a huge upward-rising mushroom cloud BEFORE any material hits the ground? Mushroom clouds are caused by the sudden release of tremendous amounts of heat energy - heat rises.

5) How does a pancaking collapse explain not only the total disintegration of recognizable portions of the building structure in mid-air, but the nearly total mid-air pulverization of all of the building materials and contents (apart from the steel) into talcum-size dust particles? When steel frame buildings fall in earthquakes, they behave like an Erector Set falling off a table - they get bent and twisted but they hang together.

6) Why was there no rubble of the type usually found at the site of a collapsed building? One would expect to find chunks of concrete, broken glass, smashed desks and computers, sections of floor slabs, and at least a few trapped occupants with a chance for survival. Rescue workers at Ground Zero were shocked to find almost no recognizable objects or parts of the building, only shredded steel, fragments of aluminum cladding, paper - and dust.

7) Why did almost the entire mass of the Towers - in the form of the enormous churning dust clouds and scattered steel - land OUTSIDE of the original building footprints in radially symmetrical distribution?

8) Where did the heat energy come from to expand these dust clouds so rapidly and to such tremendous size? Remember that this requirement is above and beyond the energy needed to pulverize all of the concrete and crush the intact portion of each structure. If we rule out energy inputs (like explosives) simple calculations show that the energy available in the elevated mass of each Tower is far from sufficient.

9) How does a pancaking collapse explain the disappearance of the remains of over 1000 bodies? Were they vaporized out of existence? or obliterated into particles too small even for DNA analysis? How could this happen?

10) How would a gravitational collapse create the intense hot spots detected by NASA's thermal mapping of Ground Zero? And why would these unexplained "fires" continue to burn deep in the rubble for WEEKS in spite of continuous efforts to cool them down with water?

Old Post Oct-30-2008 02:09  United States
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Lira
Be a Good One!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil and Manaus, Brazil

Just as a mod, I've got to ask you this, Trancer-X: To whom are you posting this info? No one, except for you, has been posting in this thread. If you bump it once, and no one else cares, there's no need to keep adding information.


___________________
“All I have learned, I learned from basslines.”

Old Post Oct-30-2008 03:32  Brazil
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

I have several dozen friends who lurk but I guess since Swamper doesn't really need the ad revenue from the page hits...

Oh well That's your call.

Old Post Oct-30-2008 03:35  United States
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Lira
Be a Good One!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil and Manaus, Brazil

Tell them to contribute, then. If you're the only one doing the talking, it makes more sense to simply create a blog and keep this information in a more organised fashion there


___________________
“All I have learned, I learned from basslines.”

Old Post Oct-30-2008 03:38  Brazil
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
Tell them to contribute, then. If you're the only one doing the talking, it makes more sense to simply create a blog and keep this information in a more organised fashion there


I've asked them to on many occasions but they refuse to post because they say they can't stand the trolls.

I'm much less dissuaded by them, though, having previously dealt with their ilk (as stock bashers) on the Raging Bull stock market message boards back during the late 90's tech bubble. Talk about flame wars - that place was crazy as it lacked mods.

Old Post Oct-30-2008 03:58  United States
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

All of my 32 imaginary friends that lurk on this forum refuse to post because there are too many revisionist 9/11 threads, so I kind of know how you feel.


___________________

Old Post Oct-30-2008 04:03  United Nations
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

Lira, the mindless ridicule and blind defamation in the post right above this one is a case in point.

Is this the PDD or the CoR? I often have trouble discerning between the two because of these trolls.

Old Post Oct-30-2008 04:07  United States
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
Lira, the mindless ridicule and blind defamation in the post right above this one is a case in point.

Is this the PDD or the CoR? I often have trouble discerning between the two because of these trolls.


My IQ must be too low to figure out how the definition of the word defamation applies. But the humor of someone who throws ad hominems like "idiot" and "ignorance" and "unintelligent" around like a hockey mom throws candy on halloween crying about his ideas not being universally accepted is not lost on me.


___________________

Old Post Oct-30-2008 04:16  United Nations
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > September 11th Attacks - Do You Think It Was a Conspiracy?
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