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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

quote:
Originally posted by Woony
Dude, 96k is nonsense for listening purposes. Anything above 44.1/48k and 16 bit lossless doesn't actually change fidelity, just the noisefloor, which is completely imperceptible with digital anyways.

I started buying vinyl around 2011. I'm at a bit over a thousand now, I think. I haven't been buying that much in the past year for various reasons but i'll get back into it eventually.


Actually this is not entirely true.

Let me preface by stating I'm a pro mix engineer for the score industry and regularly work in 24b / 96k in true surround 5 or 7.1 and have even worked in 12.1

For most home/consumer listening purposes 16/44.1 is fine. To take advantage of higher sample rates (more on bit depth later) you A) need to have a trained ear B) very serious sound reproduction equipment that doesn;t have a weak link in the entire signal path and C) a good listening environment (i.e. treated room).

All these things being true and equal, you can hear a difference. If one of these are lacking, the extra disk space that 96k takes up isn't worth it

However, there's strong evidence to show that even through the nyquist theorem is correct up to a point, there's harmonics (of high strings, woods etc) that don't get captured in 44.1k becuase they're above the 20k threshold.

With these sounds, you don't directly "hear" them but they add something in terms of being complete with their lower harmonic counterparts that your brain can detect (and inversely does detect if they're not there).

For a real world instance. I worked on a major superhero blockbuster and one of the cues had in excess of 580 individual tracks. Even on two Euphonix 246 channel desks (in different rooms but synced) it took over 30 passes to mix down the cue from nearly 80 stems. In the end there were whole stems of orchestra sections (i.e. complete orchestra sections of say violins and violas) that were little more than "coloration" as you couldn't hear them distinctly but their presence missing did take something away.

The entire score was recorded at least in 96k 32 bit floating point, and in certain instances 192k.

When playing the source vs 44.1k bounce (and bear in mind the bounces were actually passes done on the most expensive equipment and signal chain on this planet so no introduced loss) you could hear the difference like night and day.

Now, if we're talking dance music, made in someone's bedroom, produced from crappy samples and plugins, then mastered with Ozone or even send to a semi pro mastering facility, then pressed to vinyl in some random press, then you're ripping that, I very must doubt there's any real work benefit of 96k vs 44.1k

But as you go up the quality chain, and especially with some older records that were actually made with decent outboard kit, possibly recorded with traditional techniques using mics on synths, or well recorded drums and strings as samples done in pro studios, and pressed at plants that knew what they were doing and had good oldschool engineers, then the argument for higher sample rate (obviously all others being equal as above) becomes more relevant.

Finally, I'm not sure what you mean about it just increasing noise floor. Sample rate nor bit depth increases noise floor by itself. Poor gain staging with higher bit depth yes, but that's a completely different cause and argument.

To jacks point, in most shitty club settings 320 vs .wav won't make much of a difference at all, but the bigger the system, and anything of decent quality (Funktion 1 or martin for instance) .wav will make a massive difference. The problem with mp3 is how the common compression codecs work and the issue for me is that the extremes of LF and HF are always compromised first. I can actually hear the difference reliably between 320 and wav on a system such as my car, and while I don't go to clubs chin scratching, trying to catch the 320 out, you can hear a clarity, and depth of bass with a PCM or other lossless format.

Old Post Mar-21-2018 17:44 
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Leeds

If it's good enough for Sasha playing on systems like Fabric and Womb, it's good enough for me. I'm not going to waste hundreds of pounds a year paying for lossless format when the odds of me ever playing on a world class soundsystem are effectively nil.


___________________
Mixes:
> Skipton's Only Prog Night [Warm Up Grooves]
> Welcome To the Future [Driving Progressive]
> Autumn Drive [Progressive]
> The Rebel Alliance [Tech/Progressive]
> The Sunset Session [Everything]

Old Post Mar-21-2018 18:55  England
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lacksesepsotygh
;B



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Danderyds Psykhus, Stockholm

JohNick - The Return Of The Meatmen
Aaron Carl* - My House
Quantec - Dimensions Beyond The Known
AnD (7) // Jonas Kopp - Transparent / Anklad
Chris Brann - Smuthullet EP
Terrence Parker - Disco Disciple EP
Hertz & Johan Bacto - Zyncronized Part 1
Detroit Grand Pubahs - Assistance From An Unknown Source / Plasticene Gene
Simon Digby - Bottom Line
Silicone Soul - All Nite Long
Crossfire (2) - Hydro E.P.
Surgeon - First
Baby Ford . I-Fach Collective* - The Healing EP
Hidden Agenda (2) Featuring Chicago Jones - Take Me Home
Green Velvet - The Bathroom

Old Post Mar-21-2018 21:00  Sweden
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Midlothian
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2018
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Apart from having started a bit of a collection of 98-03 prog (more or less) which I haven't made a list of yet, I could not resist purchasing a second-hand copy of VA - First Flight 3x12" (Flying Rhino Records 1996) when I came across it in a record shop in England today.

Old Post Mar-24-2018 22:12  Netherlands
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
If it's good enough for Sasha playing on systems like Fabric and Womb, it's good enough for me. I'm not going to waste hundreds of pounds a year paying for lossless format when the odds of me ever playing on a world class soundsystem are effectively nil.


Tbh, you'd probably be shocked to see what certain people play out with and what the house engineers have to do to get around it (I've seen them using 128k Mp3's with massive eq curves just to flatten out the shite on world class systems).

Old Post Mar-24-2018 23:14 
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Woony
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Berlin

I'm very sceptical of anyone hearing a "night and day" difference with these kind of things. We also hear a "night and day" difference when we turn an EQ knob that isn't assigned to anything, human hearing is incredible susceptible to biases and environmental factors. I haven't done super deep research or anything but literally any scientific study I have seen over the years that looks at lossy vs. lossless comes to the conclusion that pretty much nobody can realiable tell the difference in controlled scientific ABX testing. I can't find it anymore but there was some AES guy holding a "golden ear" contest willing to give a prize to anyone that can reliably tell between lossy and lossless in a controlled testing environment and till today nobody's been able to do it.

I guess higher sample rates make sense to avoid possible aliasing on certain plugins?


___________________
November 2017 dub techno mix

Old Post Mar-26-2018 07:47 
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DJ Tsunami
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Aurora, CO, United States

CD:

Above & Beyond - Common Ground [Anjunabeats]

Vinyl:

Amber - One More Night [Tommy Boy]
Art Of Trance - Mongoose [Platipus]
BT - Smartbomb [Nettwerk America]
Cibo Matto - Moonchild (Remixed By Derrick Carter) [F-111]
Cosmic Gate - Different Concept (Part One) [E-Cutz]
Crush - Luv'd Up [Robbins]
Debra Michaels - How Do I Live [Robbins]
Dizzy & Jado - The Funk In Tha Trunk EP [Doubledown]
Eddie Amador - House Music (DJ Sneak Remixes) [Yoshitoshi]
Endre - Kallocain [Anjunabeats]
Enmass - CQ (Seek You)/So Please [A State Of Trance]
Hipp-E - Foolish Ways [Doubledown]
Jas - The Static State Opera EP [Yoshitoshi]
Johnny Dangerous - Dear Father In Heaven [Twisted America]
Lil Mark - No Numerical Order [Doubledown]
The Lost Brothers feat. G Tom Mac - Cry Little Sister (I Need U Now) [Incentive]
Marc Et Claude - Tremble [Positiva]
Marc Et Claude vs. Ralphie Dee - Sunshower '98 [Go For It]
Martin Accorsi & Tim Skinner - Playing For Digweed [Bedrock]
Martin Accorsi & Tim Skinner - Playing For Silence/Vivid & Visual [Bedrock]
Master Freakz - Let Yourself Go [Spinnin']
Mojado - Arena [Magik Muzik]
Moogwai - Viola 2005 [Platipus]
Motorcycle - As The Rush Comes (The Remixes) [Armind]
Orbital - Belfast (Leama & Moor Re-Make) [Not On Label]
Origene - Sanctuary [Tommy Boy Silver Label]
Paffendorf - Be Cool [Data]
Perfect Phase - Slammer Jammer [Tripoli Trax]
Peter Rauhofer + Pet Shop Boys = The Collaboration - Break 4 Love (Part One) [Star 69]
Photon Project - The Inside/The Outside [Black Hole]
Queen & Vanguard - Flash [Nebula]
R.O.O.S. - Instant Moments (Waiting For) [Twisted America]
Real McCoy - (If You're Not In It For Love) I'm Outta Here [Arista]
Real McCoy - One More Time (The Remixes) [Arista]
Robert Miles - One & One (Remixes) [Arista]
Scintilator - The Festival [Tsunami]
Smudge & Smith - Near Me [INCtraxx]
Stranger - 2 Dimes EP [Grayhound]
Style Of Eye - Go Get Gone [Doubledown]
Sun - Ends Of The Earth (Eric Kupper/Peter Presta Remixes) [BML]
Wyclef Jean feat. The Rock & Melky Sedeck - It Doesn't Matter [Columbia]

Old Post Apr-01-2018 02:22  United States
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lacksesepsotygh
;B



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Danderyds Psykhus, Stockholm

Vinyl market in a very sunny Stockholm last sunday

Dopplereffekt - Gesamtkunstwerk (the 2x12" with the 7")
Voice Stealer - The All Electric House (1997 album by Carl Finlow)
Erell Ranson - Sleeping Beauty EP (payed only 12 EUR and the cheapest on Discogs is around 50-60 EUR)
Redshape - Square
Kerri "Kaoz 6:23" Chandler* - Finger Printz 2 EP.
Hundarna Från Söder - EP
The Rotating Assembly - Natural Aspirations -The 12" Series-


___________________
soundcloud.com/kiskelfacit

Old Post May-19-2018 08:16  Sweden
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TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Music Discussion > What's new in your crate? [physical/virtual]
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