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TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Chill Out Room > Friday 176: It's Brazil Day, hue hue hue br br!!! + Brazilian Elections
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wotyzoid
it's not house



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: New Jersey

That's fair I would agree for the most part, except for the fact that race in Brazil is still a very taboo subject, in many ways still very much unaddressed. I wonder how much power they can hold in his cabinet and I think that will make a huge difference.


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Old Post Oct-30-2018 14:40  United States
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Lira
Be a Good One!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil and Manaus, Brazil

quote:
Originally posted by wotyzoid
Let's talk about this.

Whereas American neo-nazi's are pussies and easily punchable if you're willing to stick your neck out for an assault charge, Brazilian neo-nazi's are a little bit more hardcore and smarter, I think. The good thing about nazi's is that they're mostly all cowards wherever you go, but the problem with Brazil is that they can ride this populism wave and sneak under the radar. Brazil has a lot of cultural and racial tensions that went unaddressed for decades and all of this shit just lingers if you don't bring it up. I know everyone wants to enjoy Halloween or whatever but I feel like these last few weeks and the weeks coming up will scream through history.

That's because it's not Nazis you should look out for. The far-right in Brazil has traditionally eschewed any possible racist overtones since the Estado Novo era, courtesy of the Integralist Movement. This fascist-like movement actually repudiated racism and anti-Semitism, because Brazilian nationalists, such as Plínio Salgado, usually think of Brazil as a melting pot, not as a white man's burden (so much so that the Integralist greeting was anauê, a Native Brazilian word). Integralism as a movement sort of died out when Getúlio Vargas supplanted it with his own anti-communist regime, although he was too pragmatic to found a lasting ideology.

It's evangelicals that propelled Bolsonaro into power (he grabbed 70% of the evangelical vote) because he criticised identity politics and social programmes - which they're vehemently opposed. Because poorer regions of the country also tend to lean Catholic, this means the North-South divide worked in Bolsonaro's favour as whiter and richer cities in the South backed him.





So, yeah, Nazis aren't to blame this time around.
quote:
Originally posted by Sand Leaper
I'm having a bit of a hard time slotting traditional national socialist ideology (lebensraum, blood and soil, racial purity) into a South American context, despite the obvious racial tension. Antisemitism in Brazil is among the lowest in the world despite having one of the largest jewish communities in the world. Furthermore, Bolsonaro will have to perform some extraordinary mental gymnastics to get Hitler's concept of an aryan race to fit into Brazilian demographics (Mussolini famously had to bicker with Hitler over this, resulting in the inane mediterraneism vs. nordicism debate).

Like I told Wotyzoid, these ideas never caught on in Brazil, so our far-right is not your far-right, as conservative institutions in Brazil have a somewhat different history. I'm aware Bolsonaro has criticised blacks and Native Brazilians, but his supporters interpret these claims as a way to troll the left.
quote:
Originally posted by Sand Leaper
If anything, I'd be more worried that Bolsonaro will essentially be picking up the reactionary thread where Augusto Pinochet left off in Chile. He'll want to harness the military to kill off lefty opposition, fortify the class strata by eliminating social programs and unions and ramp up state violence and vigilantism in the slums a la Rodrigo Duterte. The question then becomes whether this will be enough to tip the scale over to full blown civil war, which he can then capitalise on to reintroduce the military junta.

I don't think it will. Our last coup d'etat, back in 1964, was a hiccup from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenentism, that led disgruntled lower-ranked officials to rebel against the government so the military could have more say in how the country was run.

I've studied in a military institution for 7 years, and I come from a traditional military family and, to the best of my knowledge and from what I've read, generals and brigadiers and the people that really matter in the armed forces are actually reluctant to join a Bolsonaro government (let alone back it with full force) because they're still scarred by the experiences from the dictatorship, that dented their reputation a bit.

Also, the beginning of our dictatorship was quite different. While Chile's dictatorship began with a coup d'etat, Brazil was plunged into chaos when Jânio Quadros resigned after 7 months in office in the hope Brazilians would demand his return to power so he could rule without checks and balances. Congress accepted his resignation and no one cared, but this put the government into disarray because the line of succession wasn't exactly very popular. And it all went downhill from there...


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Last edited by Lira on Oct-30-2018 at 21:55

Old Post Oct-30-2018 20:57  Brazil
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LoveHate
...........



Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
Nothing yet. I've just had a word with a conservative friend who works in the Ministry for Agriculture, and rumour has it the odds of a merger with the Ministry for The Environment have dropped to zero. Leaving the Paris Climate Agreement also seems to have become something of a non-starter, so I'm breathing a sigh of relief.

Thing is, no matter how extreme Bolsonaro's views are, his powers are much more limited than Trump's - and that's why I'm not exactly a happy panda. Brazil has a history of leaders frustrated with systems of checks and balances, although we've only become a fully-fledged democracy from 85 onward. I suspect a Bolsonaro presidency will be a stress test to the system, and he shouldn't be able to do much of what he has promised because he has little legislative support (except in specific topics), and he has already made enemies in the Supreme Court and in the media... So only time will tell if he'll behave or if he'll want to upend the system.


Hey I appreciate the response , yeah a lot of people are fascinated by this election in brazil in my neck of the woods , I dont know why , it's not like we are affected by it in any way , and we never followed any other Brazilian election before to warrant this much attention

However a certain group of people believe that the 'left' is all bad stuff lumped together: ebola, the AIDs virus, discovering the roll of tissue is empty after just taking a shyt. So that's why I think people like this guy are gaining more support worldwide

Last edited by LoveHate on Oct-30-2018 at 23:03

Old Post Oct-30-2018 22:45  Canada
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Lira
Be a Good One!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil and Manaus, Brazil

Update: Bolsonaro suddenly backtracked, and it seems the merger is happening after all, catching even insiders by surprise. BRB, joining the Green Party and getting my Greenpeace card
quote:
Originally posted by LoveHate
yeah a lot of people are fascinated by this election in brazil in my neck of the woods , I dont know why , it's not like we are affected by it in any way , and we never followed any other Brazilian election before to warrant this much attention

It makes a lot of sense, actually. It's as though a fringe third party candidate won the American presidency, against a machine that largely favours the status quo... By praising waterboarding, making rape jokes in congress, and saying something akin to "nggers are no use".

The last time a candidate from a party other than the Workers' Party (our Democrats) and the Social Democratic Brazilian Party (our Republicans) made it to a run-off (and won!) was in 1989. He was impeached a couple of years later. I suspect it's going to be a bumpy ride.


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Old Post Oct-31-2018 03:38  Brazil
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wotyzoid
it's not house



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: New Jersey

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
So, yeah, Nazis aren't to blame this time around.


I know that, but I'm saying its kind of amazing how people like that are still around. A good amount of people may think he's trolling or whatever but people really think like that even in Brazil, the element is still there. So when someone like that gets in power I do worry. Look at what's happening here.


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Old Post Oct-31-2018 04:17  United States
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Lira
Be a Good One!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil and Manaus, Brazil

quote:
Originally posted by wotyzoid
So when someone like that gets in power I do worry. Look at what's happening here.

Oh, but I AM worried! If it seems like I'm trying to calm you down, it's because I'm myself trying to keep my cool. I just meant to say I'm holding my breath for slightly different reasons


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Old Post Oct-31-2018 15:13  Brazil
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wotyzoid
it's not house



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: New Jersey

Did you see the video of the guy that pulled out his gun on this other kid for stealing his kite?


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Old Post Oct-31-2018 15:38  United States
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Lira
Be a Good One!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil and Manaus, Brazil

I'm a light-weight, I don't think I have the stomach these videos and remain functional for the rest of the day


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Old Post Oct-31-2018 19:12  Brazil
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wotyzoid
it's not house



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: New Jersey

Nah, thank God in this specific case nothing happened, the one dude just gave the kite back and it's kind of funny but not really. I just imagine the kind of crazy shit that's gonna go down if the gun laws are loosened like he plans on doing.


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Old Post Oct-31-2018 21:10  United States
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Sand Leaper
Love savant



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Oslo, Norway

Looks like the fun has already started:

https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/inter...perations.shtml

Bolsonaro clearly realises that universities have to be stifled, as they are currently the main source of lefty oppositional thought. When you lose the support of the workers in the streets and rely on state funded, middle class academia instead, choking out your political influence seemingly becomes a hell of a lot easier.

You'd think that totalitarian stuff like this would be the spark that sets off mass scale protest, but after all the identitarian campus protest madness that has taken place during the last few years, I'm not sure if universities are held in high enough regard anymore.


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Old Post Nov-06-2018 10:09  Norway
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Lira
Be a Good One!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil and Manaus, Brazil

This has such a weird story behind it, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this mess. The worst of all is that Bolsonaro is a symptom, not the cause, so even if he vanished inexplicably tomorrow, we'd still have to deal with this.

It's a consequence of the "Escola Sem Partido" (School Without Party) movement, created in 2004 and peaked in 2016, when Dilma Rousseff was impeached and the right decided it was time for an ideological purge of sorts. Taken up by a grassroots conservative movement, it claimed (often rightly) that teachers and professors from public institutions are often not just left-of-centre but also left-of-Kenny, often with egregious examples. It all started, actually, when the São Paulo state attorney claimed that his daughter's teacher compared Francis of Assisi to Che Guevara. God knows what the context was, but our quixotic attorney went way overboard, and classrooms have become ideological battlefields for a while now. I, for one, have refrained from even posting about politics on Facebook, let alone in class.

Brazilian society has also been very critical of affirmative action measures taken in the last 20 years, as they think this is a ploy by leftists to weaken our education. Our policemen lean right. There had been news about dirty tricks long before the election, with Bolsonaro supporters illegally pushing fake news through WhatsApp, and this was some sort of retaliation as the Federal Police assumed the left was "using" universities to spread propaganda before elections, which is illegal (so this may have been the result of incompetence and misinterpretation of the law rather than an evil plot).

The Attorney-General, Raquel Dodge (who, incidentally, comes from the university where I work), has already positioned herself against this, and opened an investigation and the Supreme Court is also releasing statements against the project - a decision banning the "School without Party" for good should be made in a few days. This is just the first stress test, and it's not even Jair's fault yet


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Old Post Nov-06-2018 20:22  Brazil
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wotyzoid
it's not house



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: New Jersey

I don't know if I even believe that, or if I should take it as a compliment, but conservatives are really just a bunch of reactionaries. Who the fuck cares if some professor made a comparison that we dont even know the context of? Their snowflake, npc nickname bullshit is just a way to vent the truth about themselves. They're all the same. And I'll still bet I make most professors in Brasil look about as left as Lindsey Graham.


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Old Post Nov-06-2018 21:40  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Chill Out Room > Friday 176: It's Brazil Day, hue hue hue br br!!! + Brazilian Elections
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