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identity7
Junior tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Poltava

quote:
Originally posted by RebeL9
The fact is also that alot of the so called trance of today got more in common with pop music than it's original trance. So using the term "pop trance" is perfectly legitimate.

Some examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7qEivYkgZM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyUfJVqMtO0


Heh, I really fail to see how anyone can draw a paralel between this and trance like it can be done with Mick Jagger and his 30 years old stuff and stuff like Franz Ferdinand if we are to talk about rock.

Old Post Jan-12-2010 11:01  Ukraine
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klappa
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: North Korea

quote:
Originally posted by RebeL9
The fact is also that alot of the so called trance of today got more in common with pop music than it's original trance. So using the term "pop trance" is perfectly legitimate.

Some examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7qEivYkgZM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyUfJVqMtO0


Agreed!

Compare that to communication, blue fear..

But that latino girl in the Going Wrong video was hella hot! A sure way to get innocent boys like me forcing me to listen to such crap

Old Post Jan-12-2010 11:01 
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evo8
Virtual Wannabe



Registered: Aug 2004
Location:

I wonder when Armin finally hangs up the headphones will he ever look back at some of that stuff and think "What in the fuck was I doing back then"
That "going wrong" - call it trance, pop-trance, pop music, dance or whatever, its just so bad


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Old Post Jan-12-2010 11:45  Ireland
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infiniteJEST
solipsist sitcom



Registered: Mar 2008
Location: frolicking w/ minstrels, online.

quote:
Originally posted by evo8
I wonder when Armin finally hangs up the headphones will he ever look back at some of that stuff and think "What in the fuck was I doing back then"
That "going wrong" - call it trance, pop-trance, pop music, dance or whatever, its just so bad


He admits to making/playing music for his fans. His personal preference is darker, moodier trance without the overdone buildup/breakdown formula. Think Blue Fear.


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Old Post Jan-12-2010 13:35 
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PETRAN
Like Antennas To Heaven



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Volos, Greece

quote:
Originally posted by identity7
Your post would make sense if you didn't forget about Euro-pop/Euro-dance which "developed" from stuff like Modern Talking, Captain Jack, Sequential One, Mr. President, Two Unlimited before trance even became known and a common word to describe the undeground genre.

Case in point:
Trance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uz1J4BpXb8
Euro-dance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA39yqwnX98
"uplifting trance": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MZmPoPvJYE&feature=fvst

Now tell me which of those three have the most in common?
Just because they have 4/4 beat and are electronic doesn't make them the same.

So your post makes no sense. And what does rock which was always mainstream and followed formulas for crowds have to do with anything?




Yes, thats what im saying in my post, look carefully, that "euroish" stuff and "brit-prog" influenced the development of uplifting trance. What the f*ck don't you agree with? Thats what happens in music all the time, there can substantial inter- (and intra-) genre influences and cross-fertilizations. I mentioned rock music-a subject which you are clearly ignorant and don't have a clue about (and it is my humble opinion that if you are clearly ignorant in one subject then it is good to NOT be as opiniated because the only thing you show is your massive stupidity)-because it is now a huge genre with lots of sub-genres just to show that things like that happen all the time in music IN GENERAL not just trance. People invent names for genres but genres are not rigid, they change all he time. They are not objective descriptions of truth. There is no
objective "trance-meter" that demonstrates the amount of objective "tranceness" in a tune, trance is only what people say to be and so uplifting trance happens to be a sub-genre of trance. "Trance" is just a "name" invented in germany for a german type of techno and even back then there were substantial variations under that name. Personally i never felt "entranced" by that music since even back then it wasn't very repeatetive e.g. the stuff by Resistance D, Cosmic Baby etc,. were linear with developing melodies, arpeggios and sounds.


As i said before "trance" (like any other genre of music) is just an attempt to describe a certain category, its a label, it is not the essence of the thing. I personally never felt "blue" by listening to blues (or modern...r n b...), "metal" does not involve some kind of "metallic instrument", "black metal" is not "black" and "power metal" doesn't have "power", house is not just the music played in the warehouse, or any house, techno is not technological music-no more technological than house, drum n bass, trance or even some forms of modern rock music, IDM is not the most "intelligent" music ever, (music doesn't have intelligence in the first place) and there are no IQ tests to measure the I in IDM.


Genre-names are not ontologically identical with the categories of sounds they try to describe. They are just helfull labels that try to organize the vast chaotic world of music. Epic or uplifting trance happened to derive from that early trance genre, which yes shared some of the same elements (arpeggios and pianos anyone? Dance 2 Trance? Cosmic Baby? Jam & Spoon?). Thats all there is to it.

Old Post Jan-12-2010 14:56  Greece
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Leeds

quote:
Originally posted by identity7
So just because it was released by Platypus makes in Trance?
Even Eye-Q released a -rap- album in its time.


No, just as Lieb hating it doesn't preclude it from being trance. Trance-MB, for all his stupidity, didn't ask you which producers publicly hated the track, so this Lieb business is a fairly weak attempt at indirect inference of your point, as is going on what that bastion of knowledge MTV labels a track. Which is why I deliberately brought in similar weak inference such as it being signed to Platipus to show you can prove and disprove anything in that way. And again, "It's not trance because it doesn't sound like trance" is just glaring circular logic.

It's not even that I disagree with you about the idea that most modern trance is basically Euro-dance without the rapping. I've just become thoroughly sick of this meta-narrative of the genre that says "real trance" died in 1996, Children killed it and everything before that date was brilliant and flawless and everything after that date was shit and fake. It's like a bedtime story read to children.


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Old Post Jan-12-2010 15:25  England
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identity7
Junior tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Poltava

@Petran:
Music can change, I wasn't denying that. However would it be rock music if rockers dropped guitars and replaced them with synths?
And now remember how it was in 2004-2006 with "trance" when pop with electro-guitars was labeled like one (and continues to this day with f.e. Dogzilla)
See my point in the previous post - there is 30 years difference between Jagger's music and Ferdinand's music however it still has the same style of how it's done and is full on similar elements.
So that was my point.

quote:
Personally i never felt "entranced" by that music since even back then it wasn't very repeatetive e.g. the stuff by Resistance D, Cosmic Baby etc,. were linear with developing melodies, arpeggios and sounds.

Repetitiveness is more of the defining element of techno, not trance.
Trance always had melodies and was pretty much about them - I think people say "entrancing" for the lack of a better word to describe a general mood - like if you'll take the stuff of artists you've mentioned you'll notice that it has relaxing, meditative melodies which at the same time remain good for dancefloor due to elements built around them - yeah music is the thing that's hard to describe with words - but you can notice that that was the central point of trance sound (how it came to be known) coming from Harthouse/EyeQ labels and their artists - something modern "trance" doesn't have at all.
Here is a good example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nCusX2UIWA&fmt=18

As for genres - some did get names because of their "essence". Metal does sound "metallic", like sawing a metal. And drum'n'bass is very self explanatory. Obviously not all genres are named randomly you know.
And genres are used to describe similar stuff right? Power metal/black metal/etc do sound like all other metal. Stuff that Armin, Above&Beyond, Ferry churn out doesn't sound like trance at all, has no elements in common (up to having acousting instruments replacing everything) but is being labeled like one. See the difference?

@System-J:
He asked which trance artists wasn't happy with how things were going for trance at the time, this was just an example.

quote:
"It's not trance because it doesn't sound like trance" is just glaring circular logic.

Or is it? You wouldn't call Madonna - heavy metal. Why? Because she doesn't sound like one?

quote:
I've just become thoroughly sick of this meta-narrative of the genre that says "real trance" died in 1996, Children killed it and everything before that date was brilliant and flawless and everything after that date was shit and fake. It's like a bedtime story read to children.

You are completely missing the point. There were poor trance records of course but they were trance records and there is a solid, nicely produced new stuff but it just isn't trance. That's all to it really.
The problem is only in that trance label is being put on everything today and much stuff is not only totally unrelated but not of a high quality either.

Old Post Jan-12-2010 16:53  Ukraine
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evo8
Virtual Wannabe



Registered: Aug 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by couch-potato
He admits to making/playing music for his fans. His personal preference is darker, moodier trance without the overdone buildup/breakdown formula. Think Blue Fear.


Even so, i still wonder how he will feel about doing that when he looks back at his career.


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Old Post Jan-12-2010 17:56  Ireland
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rubez
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2007
Location:



Chelonis R. Jones - Pompadour (Dimitri Andreas Remix)


really classy track. dark with a minimalist edge, still has a nice violin melody, whispered vox/vocals.


another amazing tune not on youtube sadly is Mauro Picotto - Shark. fucking addictive brain food. the master.

Old Post Jan-12-2010 19:19  Scotland
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PETRAN
Like Antennas To Heaven



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Volos, Greece

quote:
Originally posted by identity7
@Petran:
Music can change, I wasn't denying that. However would it be rock music if rockers dropped guitars and replaced them with synths?
And now remember how it was in 2004-2006 with "trance" when pop with electro-guitars was labeled like one (and continues to this day with f.e. Dogzilla)
See my point in the previous post - there is 30 years difference between Jagger's music and Ferdinand's music however it still has the same style of how it's done and is full on similar elements.
So that was my point.


Repetitiveness is more of the defining element of techno, not trance.
Trance always had melodies and was pretty much about them - I think people say "entrancing" for the lack of a better word to describe a general mood - like if you'll take the stuff of artists you've mentioned you'll notice that it has relaxing, meditative melodies which at the same time remain good for dancefloor due to elements built around them - yeah music is the thing that's hard to describe with words - but you can notice that that was the central point of trance sound (how it came to be known) coming from Harthouse/EyeQ labels and their artists - something modern "trance" doesn't have at all.
Here is a good example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nCusX2UIWA&fmt=18

As for genres - some did get names because of their "essence". Metal does sound "metallic", like sawing a metal. And drum'n'bass is very self explanatory. Obviously not all genres are named randomly you know.
And genres are used to describe similar stuff right? Power metal/black metal/etc do sound like all other metal. Stuff that Armin, Above&Beyond, Ferry churn out doesn't sound like trance at all, has no elements in common (up to having acousting instruments replacing everything) but is being labeled like one. See the difference?

@System-J:
He asked which trance artists wasn't happy with how things were going for trance at the time, this was just an example.


Or is it? You wouldn't call Madonna - heavy metal. Why? Because she doesn't sound like one?


You are completely missing the point. There were poor trance records of course but they were trance records and there is a solid, nicely produced new stuff but it just isn't trance. That's all to it really.
The problem is only in that trance label is being put on everything today and much stuff is not only totally unrelated but not of a high quality either.




ok

classical music...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSw7CcAXPWk


classical music... (but different "sub-genre" to the previous one)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8v-uDhcDyg


Rock....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpzV_0l5ILI



Rock.... (but different "sub-genre" to the previous one)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1z0lEqa5dE




and by saying that black and power metal sound similar to "other metal" you obviously don't have a clue... i will provide you with two examples of two other metal "sub-genres" and even within closer time limits...(e.g. 20 years)which makes it more comparable to "trance"...


Metal....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GghCs_C65v0




Metal...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgH6VBchjEA



I can provide you with countless other examples to show you how vastly different things can get despite the fact that they come under the same "genre-name". Because "genres" are just labels not some kind of platonic objective truth. IMO, uplifting trance is much closer to classic trance if you compare it with the examples i posted. So you think that the early Cygnus-X/Brainchild records are not related to modern uplifting trance? Or Cosmic Baby's?


Cosmic Baby- Fantasia


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zT9b3lGgrc


Uplifting trance IMO is much more related to that stuff (e.g. Humate etc.) than the poppy euro-dance stuff you mentioned or to any other house or techno. Do you think that Robert Nickson's "Spiral" is more related to the euro-dance stuff than the Eye-Q stuff? Give me a break...

and yes there were more cheesier "euro-er" records called "trance" even from back then..."trance" was never too homogeneous as a genre anyway...


Jam & Spoon- Angel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMebLA5VOZs


I can't see how the modern Anjuna vocal-trance stuff is not related to the above stuff. In a matter of fact the modern Anjuna vocal trance stuff sound less cheesy than this tune.


As you said, "trance" was never too "trancey" (and when it was it was usually more "techno", you couldn't distinquish between them during those times). Trance was always about the arpeggios, the oh-so-emotional(-i-wanna-cry-and-kiss-the-random-person-who-is-dancing near-by) "xtc"-type" (usually) harmonic saw melodies and the pianos. Like the track you posted. There were degrees to those elements and uplifting trance is just the selective maximization of those elements (in a very similar "darwinian" evolution way)its more of a matter of quantity rather than quality. Thats all there is to it. Deal with (and get over) it if you are some kind of hardcore teenage fanboy who stucks to labels and genres. I used to do it when i was younger (even here) and it is crap.


And i don't care about trance (old or new) at all, i don't listen to EDM these days rofl (except for IDM but i don't strictly consider it to be EDM although it partly developed from it he). Some cool and sexy deep house or tech-housey stuff as well. Its always good for your health he.

Old Post Jan-12-2010 19:23  Greece
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rubez
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2007
Location:

REAL TRANCE!!! (dont be fooled by the sexy bitch on front)

Last edited by rubez on Jan-12-2010 at 20:50

Old Post Jan-12-2010 20:14  Scotland
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enydo
~



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: NYC

I think the things I love most about trance music are all the inane pictures people use to post the stuff to youtube. I could entertain myself for hours just browsing through them.

Old Post Jan-12-2010 21:29 
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