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TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > Production Studio > Fall 2018 Gas
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SynthNinja
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2018
Location: Hallandale, Florida
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fall 2018 Gas

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
That is absolute bollocks.

yes, guitars and microphones definately need DI boxes / preamps.

Synths - not at fucking all. They output at line level and your ensemble inputs are line level so there is no mismatch.

The only possible advantage of using a DI box or pre is is to negate possible interference from grounding issues as the outputs from a synth are unbalanced but this A) may not be an issue due to the fact you're using balanced power conditioners B) have decent cables and C) try not to run power near audio lines.

There's also a line of thought that introducing extra circuitry found in a DI box actually makes the signal path less pure/direct and becuase DI boxes balance the signal, they introduce some level of harmonic distortion.

If this were a live situation where there's long cables runs, masses of powerful equipment and giant magnets (speakers) and transformers (generators/PSUs) then DI box them in a hearbeat, but in a studio? Going straight from the synth at line level to the ensemble is the cleanest signal path you can get.

Anyone telling you otherwise is talking crap.


Here's what a Nick said, over at Sweetwater.

In general, you will not be wrong to put a DI after a synth. It may not always be necessary. If you have a line level input on your converters/interface and the keyboard is truly outputting line level, you should be fine. That said, you may want to verify the output levels, as manufacturers sometimes allow more variance to specs than one might assume.

If you just want to be safe and KNOW that your levels are always going to be correct, then you could get in the habit of using DIs. So long as the DI is 'worthy', you won't hurt the signal by doing it that way, and you probably will improve things.

I hope this clears it up. Your friend is giving you solid advice, but it's not quite as cut and dry as he's presenting it. At a certain point in this field, it's less about 'right or wrong' and more about whether it sounds good.

Thank you,

Nick Schenkel

I just realized there are virtual Pre Amps, ima try those out first on my hardware see if like the color and saturation it brings with demo

Anyhow, the Mopho arrived and my next purchase will be UAD PCie Duo or Quad used on Reverb.

Last edited by SynthNinja on Oct-01-2018 at 17:31

Old Post Oct-01-2018 16:57  United States
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SynthNinja
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2018
Location: Hallandale, Florida

quote:
Originally posted by alanzo
Yeah not for $1,200 used. Plus the interface on that is just ugly, all the green led knobs. Blech.

The boutiques are great, they're cheap and take up very little space on my desk. I just picked up the JX03 I was gassing over for $230 on Reverb.com.


I have a system1 and I never used the plug out feature button, I know I should read the manual and all, I did last time but I def skipped thru it. Anyway can it turn my system 1 to another synth?

Old Post Oct-01-2018 17:01  United States
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fall 2018 Gas

quote:
Originally posted by SynthNinja
Here's what a Nick said, over at Sweetwater.

In general, you will not be wrong to put a DI after a synth. It may not always be necessary. If you have a line level input on your converters/interface and the keyboard is truly outputting line level, you should be fine. That said, you may want to verify the output levels, as manufacturers sometimes allow more variance to specs than one might assume.

If you just want to be safe and KNOW that your levels are always going to be correct, then you could get in the habit of using DIs. So long as the DI is 'worthy', you won't hurt the signal by doing it that way, and you probably will improve things.

I hope this clears it up. Your friend is giving you solid advice, but it's not quite as cut and dry as he's presenting it. At a certain point in this field, it's less about 'right or wrong' and more about whether it sounds good.

Thank you,

Nick Schenkel

I just realized there are virtual Pre Amps, ima try those out first on my hardware see if like the color and saturation it brings with demo

Anyhow, the Mopho arrived and my next purchase will be UAD PCie Duo or Quad used on Reverb.


Few things. He says "if you have line level inputs on your interface".

Aside from some niche Mic only interfaces, I've never come across an interface that DOESN'T have line level inputs. It's kinda the point.

Secondly, variance in line level outputs can vary between manufacturers but IME, it's minimal and that's why we have gain staging and it's nothing you can't compensate for in either the synth's output or the software for the interface or the DAW.

And thirdly, my argument for not using a DI is that you're adding another link in the signal path and unless use fairly expensive DI's for every single input, they're going to add noise of some form. It would cost several hundred if not thousands to have all pristine DI boxes for all the I/O on an Ensemble.

Now my argument is that adding the noise and/pr spending all this money to compensate for what might be a tiny variance (if there's actually any at all) in line level isn't a good decision or use of money.

Sure if you're using a mix of original 70's vintage synths, some cheap Korg chaos boxes and then current Roland Synths say, you have more possible variance between line levels but using normal digital synths and drum machines, there's really no point introducing an extra signal path step, nor the extra expense of DI boxes.

DI boxes are definitely needed in a live situation or in a studio where you have tons of lines going simultaneously and an endless possibility of combinations of kit from all different eras, manufacturers, etc, but in a home studio where you're using maybe 5-8 synths tops, there's really not much benefit vs the cost and the downside of introducing signal path noise.

As to your question about virtual DIs. I really think Juan, you should go enroll at Audio Engineering school, like Full Sail in Miami. You'll answer so many of your own questions.

For instance, most synths are unbalanced and a DI box balances, and attenuates the level.

How would a virtual DI box balance a physically unbalanced cable connection? Answer: it can't.

So it's basically a gain plugin that adds a bit of distortion and coloration. That's fine if you want that specific effect, but the original question you posted was do I need it to get the best sound quality/signal path and the answer is NO, and a virtual DI box obviously has nothing to do with that original question.

Last edited by DJ RANN on Oct-08-2018 at 22:05

Old Post Oct-08-2018 21:57 
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tehlord
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Windsor

And then whatever you record will have sausage fattener on it, smashed to shit in mastering and sold as mp3's.


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Old Post Oct-08-2018 22:46  United Kingdom
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

You mean streamed at 92kbps VBR on shitty skull candy buds.

Old Post Oct-09-2018 01:46 
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Mel David
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

But with headphone profiling software those skull candy buds can sound like a professional music studios' speakers.

Stick to VSTis. Don't need to mess with all that cabling/interfacing headaches. Just use a physical controller to capture your MIDI note & knob/fader movements, else all audio stays within the digital realm for the digital realm.

The two analog synths I own, if I am honest to myself, I only purchased due to FOMO. Because of the reverence some synths have (eg. 303, Jupiter 8 & Minimoog), I thought i was missing out on some magical sounds that would take my compositions to the next level.

Old Post Oct-09-2018 02:04  Australia
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SynthNinja
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2018
Location: Hallandale, Florida
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fall 2018 Gas

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN


So it's basically a gain plugin that adds a bit of distortion and coloration. That's fine if you want that specific effect,


Yeah thats what I wanted since the beginning, color and character with subtle sweet warm saturation.

Old Post Oct-09-2018 02:34  United States
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Woony
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Berlin

Preamp plugins have gotten pretty good in the last couple of years. The likes of Kush Audio Omega 458a, Black Rooster Audio VPre-73 or Kazrog True Iron have you covered for subtle colour.


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Old Post Oct-09-2018 10:34 
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fall 2018 Gas

quote:
Originally posted by SynthNinja
Yeah thats what I wanted since the beginning, color and character with subtle sweet warm saturation.
'

Then keep your signal path as short and as clean as possible (i.e. A to B without any stop in the middle) and then use FX for the warmth.

If you REALLY know what you're doing, only then introduce it in to the signal path - this is the same conversation as Mixing in to a Compressor; the only point in doing it is if you absolutely know through experience and gross repetition that you are going to add THAT compressor, with THOSE settings after the fact.

Then it makes sense to mix in to the thing you always use so you have it while you're mixing.

Old Post Oct-09-2018 18:45 
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Mel David
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

Is D16 Group - LuSH-101 a good synth for trance for $39.99

Tempted but damn I have too many synths already that I don't use. But I always have FOMO. What if it has a preset that will be the next Sandstorm?

Old Post Oct-15-2018 13:12  Australia
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SynthNinja
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2018
Location: Hallandale, Florida

quote:
Originally posted by Woony
Preamp plugins have gotten pretty good in the last couple of years. The likes of Kush Audio Omega 458a, Black Rooster Audio VPre-73 or Kazrog True Iron have you covered for subtle colour.


I tired the Omega, very nice. Atm I'm using SPL Twin Tube, very CPU demanding even on my iMac pro 2017.

Last edited by SynthNinja on Oct-16-2018 at 17:16

Old Post Oct-16-2018 15:44  United States
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Mel David
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

You may see video projectors being discounted recently. This is because they are going to be superseded by laser projectors which are getting more affordable. They have their uses for lighting effects for music videos, displaying video & still images, song lyrics, etc.

Old Post Oct-21-2018 01:14  Australia
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