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| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Me thinks you give Americans too much credit.Admit it the situation is worse then it was back in Saddam days.yes he gased his own people but he didnt blow them up everyday.
what progress?you mean the fact that people still dont have clean water and not enough food?or the progress in security?all these insurgents are there because of the US invasion. |
First off, lets not group all the Iraqis in the same boat shall we?
There are distinct Islamic extremists being targeted that happen to be in Iraq. It's not the pandemonium of a War of the Worlds scene like you're making it out to be where everyone is freaking out all the time... 
If there's explosions, you can almost guarantee it's because there's terrorists involved. If there's innocents involved, it's not to the fault of the Americans for the most part; remember, terrorists don't play by rules, the Americans have to.
What progress???
Dear god, unless you've been living under a rock there's been LOTS of progress, however the media sure as hell isn't going to show us any of THAT! Good stories just don't sell.
Read a few blogs and do some research!
Here's one...
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3/22/04
By Michael Barone
Heartening progress in Iraq
It helps sometimes to put things in historic and metric perspective. The Iraqi Governing Council adopted a constitution on March 8, 11 months after the fall of Saddam Hussein. The German Western Parliamentary Council adopted a constitution--in May 1949, 48 months after the fall of Adolf Hitler. George W. Bush's critics complain of his "rush to war" and unpreparedness for its aftermath, but the 11 months it took to get a constitution was less than the 14 months between his speech naming Iraq as part of the "axis of evil" and the beginning of military action in Iraq.
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What is remarkable about our occupation of Iraq is not that it has gone badly but that it has gone so well. Last week, crude oil production was above target level, the central bank signed up for the payment system used by central banks internationally, and 140,000 Iraqi police and law enforcement officers were on duty. A new Iraqi currency is circulating, and schools are open. Wages are rising, interest rates are falling, businesses are opening and hiring. Millions of Iraqis are buying cellphones, TVs, and satellite dishes. Attacks on Americans have greatly diminished, and attacks on Iraqis are likely to turn them against terrorists rather than against us.
The interim constitution adopted March 8 is worth serious attention. It provides for an elected national assembly, a strong prime minister, a largely ceremonial three-member presidency, and an independent judiciary. It has a bill of rights, with freedoms of expression and religion. It promises full equality for women. It bridges one of the thornier issues by saying that Islam shall be "a source"--not the sole source--of law, and that no law can run contrary to democratic principles. It provides for a large measure of autonomy for the Kurds, who have already developed their own democratic institutions despite a history of feuding. Both Kurdish and Arabic will be official languages.
No constitution is self-executing. Benjamin Franklin, on being asked what America's Constitutional Convention had produced, famously said, "A republic . . . if you can keep it." What is encouraging here is the language used by Governing Council members. Sunnis and Kurds, Adnan Pachachi (said to be the State Department's man) and Ahmed Chalabi (said to be the Pentagon's man), they all get it--democracy, human rights, minority rights--to a degree not many expected a year ago.
This may have something to do with the extraordinary worldwide spread of democracy in the past 25 years. When Gen. Lucius Clay was prodding the Germans to produce a constitution in 1949, there were precious few democracies operating throughout the world. Now there are dozens and dozens. Starting in the 1970s with Spain, where the king played a key role, and Portugal, then in Greece and Turkey, South Korea and Taiwan, the Philippines and Indonesia, in Latin America and eastern Europe and Russia, authoritarian and totalitarian regimes have been replaced by working democracies; not always perfect, in some cases backsliding, but democracies. The trend is positive, and examples are there to see.
Advancing democracy. Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and Bill Clinton all made contributions to this. Now George W. Bush is working to advance democracy in the Middle East. Iranians have been demonstrating against the mullahs; Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah has been talking about reforms; Persian Gulf states are moving toward democracy; some brave Syrians even demonstrated in Damascus. The developments in Iraq cannot help but change the focus of Arabs and Iranians, who have long been encouraged by their tyrants to blame their plight on Israel and the United States. Now their attention is being redirected to the question of how to build a decent democratic society.
One more thing for the Coalition Provisional Authority and the Iraqi Governing Council to consider: the creation of something like Alaska's Permanent Fund to flow some percentage of state oil revenues through to each citizen. Huge oil revenues have produced wasteful, tyrannical states. Flowing through some of the money to citizens would provide a safety net and encourage the growth of a vibrant and independent private sector. Democracy requires not only a good constitution but a self-reliant people jealous of their rights. An Iraqi Permanent Fund would be a step in that direction.
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I should probably also add the Americans dropped all their foreign debt. towards Iraq and America is pushing the European and Arabic states to follow suit.
Women can now go to school and pursue careers; as well, they hold 25% of the seats in the Iraqi government.
Jalal Talabani predicted back in April, a major American pullout in a couple of years:
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Talabani predicts U.S. exit in two years
The newly elected president of Iraq said he expects that U.S. troops will be gone from his country within two years.
Jalal Talabani said Sunday that by then, Iraq should be able to rebuild its forces and secure the country, taking over the role being performed by some 140,000 U.S. troops.
"We are trying to build -- as soon as possible -- our military forces," he said.
"I think within two years, we can do it, and at the same time, we will remain in full consultation and coordination, cooperation with our American friends."
Talabani said how long U.S. forces remain in Iraq will depend on a number of factors, including "the common desire of Iraqi people and American people."
Two influential U.S. senators said Sunday they were optimistic about Talabani's prediction.
The two-year figure "probably is realistic in terms of the bulk of the troops," said Sen. Richard Lugar, an Indiana Republican and chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee.
Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, the committee's top Democrat, said, "The single most important thing we have to be doing now is make sure that training is on target and that they have the capacity to govern."
"By the end of '06 we're going to have a pretty clear picture of whether or not it's succeeding or failing," Biden said. "And success will be dependent upon a government that's representative and a capacity to govern in terms of security."
But even if that is not achieved, "I suspect you'll see the American people calling for us to significantly draw down anyway," he said.
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Their electrical grid is better than it's ever been...
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Engineers Put 202 Megawatts on Iraq Electrical Grid in August
By Mitch Frazier,U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Gulf Region Division
BAGHDAD –Red, white and black Iraqi flags ripple in the desert wind atop the six new electricity generators at the Qudas Power Plant north of Baghdad as teams of Iraqi laborers work to bring the generators online.
The whine of the turbine in the third unit from the end is the sound of progress for Iraqi and U.S. engineers. It’s the first of the six to produce electricity at the site, a site that grew from the desert floor in the past eleven months.
“The flags are something (the Iraqis) put up to show pride in their work and for their country,” said Ron Bertram a project manager with the Army Corps of Engineers at the site. “What they are doing here is huge not only for themselves but for their country, and they know it.”
Nearly $150 million is being poured into the site by the Iraqi government to bring the six new generators online, an effort that when complete will produce 516 Megawatts and service 1.5 million Iraqi homes.
The site is one of seven that Iraqi and U.S. engineers have brought on line in August, adding 202 Megawatts to the national electrical grid – a total that will fuel 606,000 Iraqi homes and brings the total available electricity in the country to 5,300 Megawatts far exceeding the pre-war level of 4,400.
“This is the most electricity we have put on the grid in a single month,” said Lt. Col. Jeffrey Ogden, the Corps’ director of restoring Iraq’s electricity. “Working with the Iraqi engineers, contractors and the Ministry of Electricity, we continue to make great progress toward providing more electricity to the people of Iraq.
“This month alone, we have added enough to fuel more than half a million homes, and we are looking at more units coming on line next month,” he said.
While the waning of fighting in war-torn Najaf offers a glimmer of hope for the new Iraq, a religious leader in another of Iraq’s battleground cities said more electricity could be the answer to quelling violence across the country.
“The people of Iraq need electricity; it is the number one thing,” said a Sadr City sheik who asked to remain unnamed. “When Iraqis can come home, turn on the lights in an air-conditioned home and are able to watch television, they will set down their weapons and quit fighting.
“Who would want to go out and fight when you can sit in an air-conditioned house?” He said.
Linkage between a safe and secure Iraq and the availability of electricity prompted the multi-national effort that began in 2003 to restore the country’s electricity.
“The work began in 2003 paved the path for what we are doing today,” said Maj. Eric Stor, the Corps’ operations officer for restoring Iraqi electricity. “The plants coming on line now are a direct result of the hard work and commitment that began more than a year ago to deliver for the Iraqi people.”
Under the former regime, electricity was found in pockets across the country with most being directed toward Baghdad to power the opulent palaces and fortresses of the Saddam rule. The capital city was one of few in the country that had reliable electricity; leaving some areas of the country with no electrical service.
“We continue to work with the Iraqi government to help them establish a fair and equitable electricity distribution and generation system that would allow all of Iraq to enjoy the modern conveniences electricity brings,” Stor said. “This means giving power to some in the most remote areas of the country, while cutting back electricity in areas like Baghdad that was accustomed to uninterrupted service.”
While creation and maintenance of the generation and distribution system continues, Stor said the future for Iraq looks brighter every day as more electricity generators come on line to service the country.
“This is the most electricity on the national grid Iraq has seen for more than a decade,” he said. “As the Ministry and the multinational team continue to bring more generation sites on line, the people of Iraq will have more electricity.”
Despite the addition of power to the country’s national grid, the demand for electricity in Iraq continues to grow.
“With more than half a million new jobs created, new industries and new factories coming on line and with the sale of thousands of washing machines and air conditioners, Iraq has experienced a rapid increase in electricity demand,” according to a fact sheet published by the Iraq Ministry of Electricity. “The increase in demand is a good sign of a thriving economy emerging from three decades of isolation.”
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As we can see, there's lots of progress in Iraq.
Oh sure there will always be something to point out but if we take a step back and look at ourselves, have we solved all our problems? Homelessness? Poverty? Crime? Drugs?
No, we still have those, however we're not dealing will the terror that our bus is going to explode from underneath us either...or that we'll be dragged from our bed in the middle of the night like under the former regime.
The mere suggestion that the Iraqis were better off before the Americans came is myopic and misguided.
So left-wing moonbats don't fret; the Americans will be out in due time but we have to give Iraqi time and training so they can pull themselves together.
It would be premature and a disaster if America was to leave now.
The Iraqis are only just starting to realize that they can do things themselves without the meger handouts they given in the past.
It may be cliche to use the phrase, "Feed a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime" but that's exactly what we're doing...
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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."
Last edited by Fir3start3r on Aug-21-2005 at 14:37
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