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-- Pondering the monitor upgrade, at what pricepoint is it worth it?


Posted by tehlord on Mar-16-2012 20:20:

Pondering the monitor upgrade, at what pricepoint is it worth it?

As the move gets ever closer......

I think i've got my hooks in a full GIK treatment package (bass traps and panels) so the next thing for me to look at is a monitor upgrade.

Or not.

I'm half thinking that the HS80s in a treated room will be plenty. Then on the other hand I'm looking at some CMS65/A7X's. Then I'm thinking that the CMS65/A7X's aren't enough of an upgrade for it to be worthwhile and maybe I need to look at Twin 6Be's or Event Opals?

What say you?


Posted by evo8 on Mar-16-2012 21:07:

Re: Pondering the monitor upgrade, at what pricepoint is it worth it?

quote:
Originally posted by tehlord
As the move gets ever closer......

I think i've got my hooks in a full GIK treatment package (bass traps and panels) so the next thing for me to look at is a monitor upgrade.

Or not.

I'm half thinking that the HS80s in a treated room will be plenty. Then on the other hand I'm looking at some CMS65/A7X's. Then I'm thinking that the CMS65/A7X's aren't enough of an upgrade for it to be worthwhile and maybe I need to look at Twin 6Be's or Event Opals?

What say you?


The fact that youve treated your room means you can go up to better monitors and really hear what they can do
That said if you are happy with the HS80s then why go to the hassle of changing?
I found it difficult to mix low-end on mackie Hr824s so i moved up to focal twins, definitely a much better monitor IMO so it was worth the change for me and i can judge the low-end much better now


Posted by DJ RANN on Mar-17-2012 00:40:

I think there are now certain "bands" of value when it comes to the current monitor market.

It used to be that cheap monitors were not really very good so most people who wanted even a "decent" setup would have to pony up a fair bit of money to get something like HR824's, but the market has now changed (and it's better for it).

You know only too well my thoughts on the current entry to mid level (2325p & HS80's etc) but I think there's no real point going for mid priced monitors anymore - the "cheaper" models like the HS80's do such a good job that the gained difference from spending another $500-$800 just isn't worth the tiny increase in performance you'll see.

The real gains are when you jump to that price bracket of the focal twins, and if it were me, I would just either stick with the HS80's which are great monitors, or go the whole hog and get either top level Gene's, PMC's or ideally Focal Twins (I don't particularly like Events).

I can't help thinking that if you don't, you'll always have it in the back of your mind that you should have gone for the other, better model.


Posted by rulzz on Mar-17-2012 05:25:

dynaudio bm 15s would be next step or some smaller Quested and after that would be something like Klein + Hummel 300 or barefoot sound micromain 35s


Posted by Richard Butler on Mar-17-2012 13:17:

Random thought.

Listening to the Beatport top 20 the other week and despite the fact some will be using all this incredible equipment, none of those tracks sounded particularly awesome and in fact most sounded like eggs frying.

I'm not for a second critiscising folk for wanting great monitoring setups, but in the end a lot of folk make no better musicical outcomes for it.

I'd worry that such equipment would be wasted on someone like me because in the end I'm not a great mixer, and I would still make poor decisions.

Tehlord, your mixing seems top notch to me already so I don't know whether your musical outcomes would truly benefit, but them I'm not qualified to know what the fuk I'm on about!


Posted by tehlord on Mar-17-2012 14:11:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Butler
Random thought.

Listening to the Beatport top 20 the other week and despite the fact some will be using all this incredible equipment, none of those tracks sounded particularly awesome and in fact most sounded like eggs frying.

I'm not for a second critiscising folk for wanting great monitoring setups, but in the end a lot of folk make no better musicical outcomes for it.

I'd worry that such equipment would be wasted on someone like me because in the end I'm not a great mixer, and I would still make poor decisions.

Tehlord, your mixing seems top notch to me already so I don't know whether your musical outcomes would truly benefit, but them I'm not qualified to know what the fuk I'm on about!



Well tbh Rich if I was only going to be doing dance stuff then I'd be happy to stick with the HS80s as it's pretty easy using them and referencing on headphones as well. It's more for the other kind of music I do as well, which I just need more detail for.

@Tom - I know what you mean. I'm in a bit of a quandry tbh as I do want to take a significant step up, but 2.5k on Twins or Opals just doesn't seem right as it's still not a real income provider to me. I know the difference will be there though. I might take a punt on some CMS65s as I was really impressed with them when I auditioned them in store. Dropping to a 6.5" cone would probably benefit as well as I don't really need 8" speakers for what I do, just means more treatment It's really detail i'm after.

I've tried Gene's before and I just don't like them, and the PSI monitors are really hard to audition (although the importer is only 30 minutes from my place here!).

I've heard good things about those Munro Eggs, and they're at a nice pricepoint, but why must they look so fucking gimmicky?

At teh others, some good suggestions there as well, although BM15's are waaaay too big for me.

I do like the HS80s, but I know I'm at the limits of their ability in this room as I can usually improve a mix by finishing it off on headphones, and that isn't right!


Posted by Normie on Mar-17-2012 19:07:

I apologize if this sounds like a dumb question but I'm trying to learn all I can about this stuff.

Is the detail you are missing a matter of the HS simply being unable to reproduce the level of quality/clarity you need or is it that your room treatment needs further adjusting to better take advantage of what the current speakers 'need'?




quote:
Originally posted by tehlord
Well tbh Rich if I was only going to be doing dance stuff then I'd be happy to stick with the HS80s as it's pretty easy using them and referencing on headphones as well. It's more for the other kind of music I do as well, which I just need more detail for.

@Tom - I know what you mean. I'm in a bit of a quandry tbh as I do want to take a significant step up, but 2.5k on Twins or Opals just doesn't seem right as it's still not a real income provider to me. I know the difference will be there though. I might take a punt on some CMS65s as I was really impressed with them when I auditioned them in store. Dropping to a 6.5" cone would probably benefit as well as I don't really need 8" speakers for what I do, just means more treatment It's really detail i'm after.

I've tried Gene's before and I just don't like them, and the PSI monitors are really hard to audition (although the importer is only 30 minutes from my place here!).

I've heard good things about those Munro Eggs, and they're at a nice pricepoint, but why must they look so fucking gimmicky?

At teh others, some good suggestions there as well, although BM15's are waaaay too big for me.

I do like the HS80s, but I know I'm at the limits of their ability in this room as I can usually improve a mix by finishing it off on headphones, and that isn't right!


Posted by DJ RANN on Mar-17-2012 19:53:

quote:
Originally posted by tehlord
Well tbh Rich if I was only going to be doing dance stuff then I'd be happy to stick with the HS80s as it's pretty easy using them and referencing on headphones as well. It's more for the other kind of music I do as well, which I just need more detail for.

@Tom - I know what you mean. I'm in a bit of a quandry tbh as I do want to take a significant step up, but 2.5k on Twins or Opals just doesn't seem right as it's still not a real income provider to me. I know the difference will be there though. I might take a punt on some CMS65s as I was really impressed with them when I auditioned them in store. Dropping to a 6.5" cone would probably benefit as well as I don't really need 8" speakers for what I do, just means more treatment It's really detail i'm after.

I've tried Gene's before and I just don't like them, and the PSI monitors are really hard to audition (although the importer is only 30 minutes from my place here!).

I've heard good things about those Munro Eggs, and they're at a nice pricepoint, but why must they look so fucking gimmicky?

At teh others, some good suggestions there as well, although BM15's are waaaay too big for me.

I do like the HS80s, but I know I'm at the limits of their ability in this room as I can usually improve a mix by finishing it off on headphones, and that isn't right!


I hear you Geoff. On the EDM side of things, I have to concur with Richard on this - if it aint broke, don't fix it, and frankly, you're mixes sound spot on and some of the best that people have posted on TA.

I get it for the score projects you want more detail, and the CM65's will give you that but I'm just not sure how much more you'll get for the money. If I were you, you could do two things.

1, But the CM65's from somewhere that will let you return without any restocking fee and set them up right next to the HS80's. Then A/B them and see if they do what you need.

2, If you can't find anywhere that will le you do that, find somewhere that has both and ask them to set them up so you can demo you're work for an hour or so on them. I'm sure DV or Studiospares would do this for you.

I actually have never fallen in love with gene's either. I know they are build very well and I do like their detail but they never floated my boat, regardless of the model.

Stay away from the eggs - I'm hearing very mixed reviews about them - some love them, others hated them.

Adams I find to have great detail especially in the mids and highs but waaaaaay to bright and unbalanced on the lows.

Have you listened to Dynaudio BM5A's? They won't be a massive step up but I know a couple of composers that use them for their simple composing rigs and I always found the detail on them to be really nice. I wouldn't want to try to do final score mixs on them so if that is your intention, then pony up and get the CM65's or twins, but otherwise, they are nice detailed monitors that won't set you back a fortune.


Posted by Nicolas Oliver on Mar-17-2012 21:15:

For what it's worth:

I started producing on Event TR8s, which I believe are considered by most people to be nearly as good as the HS80s.

Last year I upgraded to KRK VXT8s and I could not be happier. I have a fully treated room and the VXT8s sound incredible. I produce at very high volumes (more accurately, I switch between very high and very low volumes) and the monitors have never distorted or sounded 'too quiet'. They have tons of low-end and, IMO, a beautiful high-end. I know a lot of people hate on KRKs but it seems that the VXT line stands apart from some of the less favourable models, e.g. Rokits.

I absolutely recommend the VXT8s!

(Not to spam...but you can hear my latest track produced on these monitors in my sig, i.e., the Beltek bootleg (mixdown and master both done by me))


Posted by DJ RANN on Mar-17-2012 21:32:

quote:
Originally posted by Nicolas Oliver
For what it's worth:

I started producing on Event TR8s, which I believe are considered by most people to be nearly as good as the HS80s.

Last year I upgraded to KRK VXT8s and I could not be happier. I have a fully treated room and the VXT8s sound incredible. I produce at very high volumes (more accurately, I switch between very high and very low volumes) and the monitors have never distorted or sounded 'too quiet'. They have tons of low-end and, IMO, a beautiful high-end. I know a lot of people hate on KRKs but it seems that the VXT line stands apart from some of the less favourable models, e.g. Rokits.

I absolutely recommend the VXT8s!

(Not to spam...but you can hear my latest track produced on these monitors in my sig, i.e., the Beltek bootleg (mixdown and master both done by me))


I'm glad you're happy with them Nick and that's all that counts, so I'll refrain from posting my usual intensely negative thoughts about KRK (even though they extend through the VXT range).

I just want to ask you question: how do you find the detail on them? And how do you find the stereo image?

I ask because IMO, through the entire KRK range there is a distinct lack of detail compared to other brands/models, which is exactly why the OP (Tehlord) dumped his KRK's in favor of HS80's and subsequently said the difference was rather large.

Suggesting he goes for KRK in a thread where he's asking for more detail seems somewhat counter productive in my mind.....


Posted by Nicolas Oliver on Mar-17-2012 21:41:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Suggesting he goes for KRK in a thread where he's asking for more detail seems somewhat counter productive in my mind.....


My apologies! I should have read more closely


Posted by tehlord on Mar-18-2012 11:57:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
I hear you Geoff. On the EDM side of things, I have to concur with Richard on this - if it aint broke, don't fix it, and frankly, you're mixes sound spot on and some of the best that people have posted on TA.

I get it for the score projects you want more detail, and the CM65's will give you that but I'm just not sure how much more you'll get for the money. If I were you, you could do two things.

1, But the CM65's from somewhere that will let you return without any restocking fee and set them up right next to the HS80's. Then A/B them and see if they do what you need.

2, If you can't find anywhere that will le you do that, find somewhere that has both and ask them to set them up so you can demo you're work for an hour or so on them. I'm sure DV or Studiospares would do this for you.

I actually have never fallen in love with gene's either. I know they are build very well and I do like their detail but they never floated my boat, regardless of the model.

Stay away from the eggs - I'm hearing very mixed reviews about them - some love them, others hated them.

Adams I find to have great detail especially in the mids and highs but waaaaaay to bright and unbalanced on the lows.

Have you listened to Dynaudio BM5A's? They won't be a massive step up but I know a couple of composers that use them for their simple composing rigs and I always found the detail on them to be really nice. I wouldn't want to try to do final score mixs on them so if that is your intention, then pony up and get the CM65's or twins, but otherwise, they are nice detailed monitors that won't set you back a fortune.


Yeah I think i'll get my relatively local DV to set up an hour long A/B for me. I'll probably be going in there with 5k burning a hole in my pocket so if they won't do it i'll start an internet crusade exposing them as unprofessional shamsters

I did listen to the BM5s when I bought the HS80s (along with 8030s, AE22s, CMS65s and some nasty Mackie's) and wasn't wowed by them. In fact it was listening to that selection that finally sold me on the HS80s as I didn't see any real reason to spend more on the others apart from the CMS65's, which stood out as being miles better at the time. They were just 1000 vs 400 for the 80s

Maybe if I spend 5k in one go in there I'll get 10-15% off, who knows......


Posted by Subtle on Mar-18-2012 15:18:

I just got these, its a new brand in the european marked.

http://www.musicradar.com/gear/all/...k-235789/review


Posted by tehlord on Mar-18-2012 17:00:

quote:
Originally posted by Subtle
I just got these, its a new brand in the european marked.

http://www.musicradar.com/gear/all/...k-235789/review


Ah good call, I've heard lot's of really good things about those. Have you had a chance to use them much yet?


Posted by Subtle on Mar-18-2012 18:16:

quote:
Originally posted by tehlord
Ah good call, I've heard lot's of really good things about those. Have you had a chance to use them much yet?
Great mids and highs, good stereo separation, they sound very honest and clear and doesnt have too much bass.
Though i havent heard other similar monitors on the marked so cant compare it to anything.


Posted by tehlord on Mar-18-2012 21:19:

The more I read about these things the more I think you may have ended my search (subject to an A/B with the CMS65s and a set of HS80s)

I know of a guy that upgraded to the Sonodyne's from HS80s as well and he was apparently blown away by the improvement.

And all for a grand too


Posted by itsamemario on Mar-19-2012 00:23:

quote:
Originally posted by Subtle
Great mids and highs, good stereo separation, they sound very honest and clear and doesnt have too much bass.
Though i havent heard other similar monitors on the marked so cant compare it to anything.


From the article, I'd think they'd be chinese so I was gonna make a joke about it working very well for two weeks, so was kinda shocked to learn they're Indian.

Where'd you get them and what did you pay?


Posted by tehlord on Mar-19-2012 01:12:

quote:
Originally posted by dj_alfi
From the article, I'd think they'd be chinese so I was gonna make a joke about it working very well for two weeks, so was kinda shocked to learn they're Indian.

Where'd you get them and what did you pay?



That's what everybody said about the Japanese stuff in the 70s/80s until they realised they were making it better than the unions in the west.

You'll all be speaking Chinese in 20 years


Posted by Looney4Clooney on Mar-19-2012 01:16:

China, still has a long way to go. They will go thru a huge social retaliation, and well, who knows how that pans out. But considering how fucked everyone else is. I say india will be doing rather well.


Posted by tehlord on Mar-19-2012 01:20:

Well they don't have an Empire feeding them heroine to keep them down this time. You'll be amazed at how fast they move. I'd rather speak Chinese than American anyway. They still can't understand style though.


Posted by Subtle on Mar-19-2012 01:37:

quote:
Originally posted by dj_alfi
From the article, I'd think they'd be chinese so I was gonna make a joke about it working very well for two weeks, so was kinda shocked to learn they're Indian.

Where'd you get them and what did you pay?
I got them on procom for about 9995,- kroner.

Actually i might have to return one of the monitors as the sound goes off at times.


Posted by evo8 on Mar-19-2012 08:36:

Nevermind those Sonodynes...these are what you want
http://www.trident-audio.com/hg3.html


Posted by tehlord on Mar-20-2012 11:31:

quote:
Originally posted by evo8
Nevermind those Sonodynes...these are what you want
http://www.trident-audio.com/hg3.html


They look like car speakers you'd see in the Fast and Furious films



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