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Obama's speech to the Muslim world

That's how it rolls..

Obama pwned. Obama pwns. Holy FUCK is this country moving in the right direction!

they look pretty convinced to me..

damn i think that might have been his most impressive speech to date considering the monumental rift he sought to bridge between east and west. in 55 minutes he likely dealt a bigger blow to extremism than bush did in his whole 8 years. i can't even think of another person in our political landscape that could have come up with a message even remotely similar in flavor. best $400k/year this country ever spent

i like how he spoke perfectly for an hour and literally messed up his last sentence.

I thought the speech was pretty good albeit rather inaccurate in places... like the suggestion that liberation and equality of blacks was accomplished entirely non-violently, or the comparison between the plight of women in the west and the "Muslim world." I also think it's inaccurate to peg this as a speech to the "Muslim world" because it was really a speech to the Arab nations. All of that said, I think he did exactly what needed to be done, opened the door for more diplomacy and (hopefully) honest dialog... and DAMN... what a great piece of rhetoric... bordering on art, really!

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt they look pretty convinced to me..

lol - great pic!


it was a nice speech, but obama's speech was bordering dillusional with some of his claims.

Pardon me if I don't wet myself like Krypton in the post at the top. lol. Let's at least have some spirited debate here before this thread turns into a giant circle jerk. Some points that should be made.

1 - The moral equivalency on women's rights was downright weak. He said like in the Muslim world, the struggle for womens' equality continues in many aspects of American life. So, on one hand you have what... a women's college lacrosse team fighting for the right to their full funding under Title IX, and on the other hand you have women beaten in the street in Saudi Arabia who show an ankle.

2- I thought it was kinda weird that he's down with allowing Iran to pursue nuclear power but not our own country.

3- What was with apologizing for colonialism? America has no colonialism past.

4- Mentioning that Iraq was a "war of choice" but failing to mention the million or so times Saddam failed to comply with UN Security Council resolutions.

5- He tried to connect the civil rights movement in the U.S. with the Palestinians' struggle for an independent state. The civil rights movement didn't have the goal of destroying the U.S., while Hamas and other extremist groups wanting to lead the Palestinians expressly have that goal.

6- Not once did he mention the good things America has done on behalf of Muslim nations... the aid and assistance we provided Indonesia after the tsunami, coming to Kuwait's aid, Kosovo's... etc.

7- "It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra." Wrong... it was developed by ancient Babylonians who weren't Muslim. (edit: and has greek roots)

8- This poor moral equivalency:

quote:

Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust.Six million Jews were killed – more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people – Muslims and Christians – have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations – large and small – that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable.

It's naive to think the Palestinians want to peacefully co-exist with Israelies. 6 million Jews dead is equal to 60 years without a homeland? LOL.

9- His statement that the U.S. is one of the largest "Muslim countries" in the world. Hilarious actually. What's the number... somewhere between 1.5-7 million in America? From a world population of 1.5 billion? There are 34 countries I believe with larger populations of Muslims.

10- Saying we should not dictate to other countries, yet dictating to Israel to stop building settlements in the West Bank. Uhhh... am I missing something here?

And as a bonus, if you want tips on "how to write your own Obama speech", go here---> http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...ma-speech/full/

Your problem 17sss, is you fail to have empathy for valid alternative points of view. It isn't radicals who are against us. It's average men and women. And if we'r going to have them on our side, we have to acknowledge their point of view, on equal terms.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss 3- What was with apologizing for colonialism? America has no colonialism past.

uh what

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss 7- "It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra." Wrong... it was developed by ancient Babylonians who weren't Muslim. (edit: and has greek roots)

yes thats why its called algebra

Words.

quote:

In Ankara, I made clear that America is not – and never will be – at war with Islam. We will, however, relentlessly confront violent extremists who pose a grave threat to our security. Because we reject the same thing that people of all faiths reject: the killing of innocent men, women, and children. And it is my first duty as President to protect the American people.

This is amazing. Does he not have a clue as to what is going on in the Middle East right now?

quote:

The situation in Afghanistan demonstrates America’s goals, and our need to work together. Over seven years ago, the United States pursued al Qaeda and the Taliban with broad international support. We did not go by choice, we went because of necessity.

Very scary stuff right here.

quote:

But let us be clear: al Qaeda killed nearly 3,000 people on that day. The victims were innocent men, women and children from America and many other nations who had done nothing to harm anybody. And yet Al Qaeda chose to ruthlessly murder these people, claimed credit for the attack, and even now states their determination to kill on a massive scale. They have affiliates in many countries and are trying to expand their reach. These are not opinions to be debated; these are facts to be dealt with.

Aren't over 90,000 innocent civilians dead in Iraq due to the "war" right now?

quote:

And despite the costs involved, America’s commitment will not weaken.

Here's another dollar sir!

quote:

We also know that military power alone is not going to solve the problems in Afghanistan and Pakistan. That is why we plan to invest $1.5 billion each year over the next five years to partner with Pakistanis to build schools and hospitals, roads and businesses, and hundreds of millions to help those who have been displaced. And that is why we are providing more than $2.8 billion to help Afghans develop their economy and deliver services that people depend upon.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail uh what

Exactly. I remember 13 original colonies/states. Everything beyond those was another "colony."

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Exactly. I remember 13 original colonies/states. Everything beyond those was another "colony."

+ Cuba + Puerto Rico + Guam + The Philippines + Panama Canal Zone

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov + Cuba + Puerto Rico + Guam + The Philippines + Panama Canal Zone

+ Diego Garcia


Nonetheless, this is no doubt a step in the right direction for the US. Despite all those questions and points that people on this board will post (including my own addition of Diego Garcia, above), these issues are largely from Americas past. We cant expect decades/centuries of imperialism (for want of a better word) to be erased overnight.

The Bin Laden's of the world will hold onto old grudges and single out words from Obama that are contradictory to history, but lets see his words for what they are - a step in the right direction.

It will take many decades to heal all the hurts created by previous administrations. Obama isnt going to achieve everything people have expected of him in the 4-8 years.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss 4- Mentioning that Iraq was a "war of choice" but failing to mention the million or so times Saddam failed to comply with UN Security Council resolutions 10- Saying we should not dictate to other countries, yet dictating to Israel to stop building settlements in the West Bank. Uhhh... am I missing something here?

see reso. 242. It really is convenient to use the security council to your advantage when it is alligned with your political ideology and to conveniently ignore it when it isn't, eh 17?

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail yes thats why its called algebra

algebra (al-jabr) is an arabic word.


arabic |= muslim

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 algebra (al-jabr) is an arabic word. arabic |= muslim

ok yea that was a slipup, but the guy who named it aljabr was also a muslim

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss 1 - The moral equivalency on women's rights was downright weak. He said like in the Muslim world, the struggle for womens' equality continues in many aspects of American life. So, on one hand you have what... a women's college lacrosse team fighting for the right to their full funding under Title IX, and on the other hand you have women beaten in the street in Saudi Arabia who show an ankle. 2- I thought it was kinda weird that he's down with allowing Iran to pursue nuclear power but not our own country. 3- What was with apologizing for colonialism? America has no colonialism past. 4- Mentioning that Iraq was a "war of choice" but failing to mention the million or so times Saddam failed to comply with UN Security Council resolutions. 5- He tried to connect the civil rights movement in the U.S. with the Palestinians' struggle for an independent state. The civil rights movement didn't have the goal of destroying the U.S., while Hamas and other extremist groups wanting to lead the Palestinians expressly have that goal. 6- Not once did he mention the good things America has done on behalf of Muslim nations... the aid and assistance we provided Indonesia after the tsunami, coming to Kuwait's aid, Kosovo's... etc. 7- "It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra." Wrong... it was developed by ancient Babylonians who weren't Muslim. (edit: and has greek roots) 8- This poor moral equivalency: It's naive to think the Palestinians want to peacefully co-exist with Israelies. 6 million Jews dead is equal to 60 years without a homeland? LOL. 9- His statement that the U.S. is one of the largest "Muslim countries" in the world. Hilarious actually. What's the number... somewhere between 1.5-7 million in America? From a world population of 1.5 billion? There are 34 countries I believe with larger populations of Muslims. 10- Saying we should not dictate to other countries, yet dictating to Israel to stop building settlements in the West Bank. Uhhh... am I missing something here? And as a bonus, if you want tips on "how to write your own Obama speech", go here---> http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...ma-speech/full/

it's a good thing you aren't paid to write speeches. the purpose of the speech wasn't to enlighten people; it was meant to build a bridge with the average muslim (i.e., show muslims that americans aren't that different). to that extent, obama had to make personal connections with the audience (e.g., woman's rights, civil rights, etc...). One of the most basic lessons in communications is to address your audience, in this case, the muslim people. Pontificating to the muslim people about america's superiority would have been counterproductive.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail ok yea that was a slipup, but the guy who named it aljabr was also a muslim

perhaps, but that doesn't necessarily make it a muslim contribution. I'm not saying muslims didn't contribution to algebra, because i don't really know the history of algebra (and knowing the history is relatively useless anyway), but simply naming something isn't much of a contribution.

A far more important contribution to algebra by a muslim (of which I'm aware) is the introduction of:

(i) arabic numerals [i.e., 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0] and

(ii) the cancellation of like terms from both sides of an equation [i.e., the ability to subtract 5 from both sides of an equation such that if the left side of an equation had +5 as a component, after conducting that operation, the +5 was eliminated from the left side and the right side had -5 as a component). could you imagine life without this simple operation?

Here is a partial list of muslim contributions, you can google everyons name.

[ A timetable of contributions:]

- Chuzini, Abu al-Fath al-; physicist.
- Ibn Hisham; biographer, historian.
- Ibn Labban, Kushyar.
- Ibn Turk, `Abd al-Hamid; mathematician.
- Ibn al-Muqtafi, Abu al-Fadl Ja`far; astronomer.
- 767 Ibn Ishaq; biographer, historian.
721- 815 Jabir ibn Hayyan, Abu Musa (Geber); alchemist.
780- 850 Khwarizmi, Muhammad ibn Musa al-; astronomer,
mathematician.
82?- 861 Farghani, Abu al-`Abbas al- (Afragamus); astronomer,
geographer.
828- 889 Ibn Qutaybah; historian, philologist, theologian.
826- 901 Ibn Qurra, Thabit; mathematician.
865- 923 Razi, al- (Rhazes); alchemist, physician.
839- 923 Tabari, al-; historian, theologian.
858- 929 Battani, al- (Albatenius); astronomer, mathematician.
870- 950 Farabi, al- (Alfarabicus), poet.
940- 998 Abu al-Wafa'; astronomer, mathematician.
-1008 Ibn Yunus; astronomer, mathematician.
936-1013 Abu al-Qasim (Albucasis); physician.
-1029 Karkhi, al-; mathematician.
930-1030 Ibn Miskawayh; historian.
980-1037 Ibn Sina, Abu `Ali al-Husayn (Avicenna);
physician.
965-1039 Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen); mathematician, physicist.
973-1048 Biruni, al-; historian, mathematician, physicist.
1058-1111 Ghazali, Abu Hamid al- (Algazel); philosopher.
1048-1131 Khayyam, `Umar (Omar Khayyam); astronomer, mathematician,
poet.
1075-1144 Zamakhshari, al-; philologist, theologian.
1090-1162 Ibn Zuhr, Abu Marwun `Abd al-Malik (Avenzoar, Abumeron);
physician.
1100-1185 Ibn Tufayl; physician.
1126-1198 Ibn Rushd, Abu al-Walid (Averroes); philosopher,
physician.
1201-1274 Tusi, Nasir al-Din al-; astronomer, mathematician,
-1288 Ibn al-Nafis; physician.
-137? Ibn al-Shatir; astronomer.
1332-1406 Ibn Khaldun, Abu Zayd `Abd al-Rahman; historian,
sociologist.
-1436 Kashi, al-; mathematician.
1445-1505 Suyuti, al-; historian, philologist, theologian.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Here is a partial list of muslim contributions, you can google everyons name. [ A timetable of contributions:] - Chuzini, Abu al-Fath al-; physicist. - Ibn Hisham; biographer, historian. - Ibn Labban, Kushyar. - Ibn Turk, `Abd al-Hamid; mathematician. - Ibn al-Muqtafi, Abu al-Fadl Ja`far; astronomer. - 767 Ibn Ishaq; biographer, historian. 721- 815 Jabir ibn Hayyan, Abu Musa (Geber); alchemist. 780- 850 Khwarizmi, Muhammad ibn Musa al-; astronomer, mathematician. 82?- 861 Farghani, Abu al-`Abbas al- (Afragamus); astronomer, geographer. 828- 889 Ibn Qutaybah; historian, philologist, theologian. 826- 901 Ibn Qurra, Thabit; mathematician. 865- 923 Razi, al- (Rhazes); alchemist, physician. 839- 923 Tabari, al-; historian, theologian. 858- 929 Battani, al- (Albatenius); astronomer, mathematician. 870- 950 Farabi, al- (Alfarabicus), poet. 940- 998 Abu al-Wafa'; astronomer, mathematician. -1008 Ibn Yunus; astronomer, mathematician. 936-1013 Abu al-Qasim (Albucasis); physician. -1029 Karkhi, al-; mathematician. 930-1030 Ibn Miskawayh; historian. 980-1037 Ibn Sina, Abu `Ali al-Husayn (Avicenna); physician. 965-1039 Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen); mathematician, physicist. 973-1048 Biruni, al-; historian, mathematician, physicist. 1058-1111 Ghazali, Abu Hamid al- (Algazel); philosopher. 1048-1131 Khayyam, `Umar (Omar Khayyam); astronomer, mathematician, poet. 1075-1144 Zamakhshari, al-; philologist, theologian. 1090-1162 Ibn Zuhr, Abu Marwun `Abd al-Malik (Avenzoar, Abumeron); physician. 1100-1185 Ibn Tufayl; physician. 1126-1198 Ibn Rushd, Abu al-Walid (Averroes); philosopher, physician. 1201-1274 Tusi, Nasir al-Din al-; astronomer, mathematician, -1288 Ibn al-Nafis; physician. -137? Ibn al-Shatir; astronomer. 1332-1406 Ibn Khaldun, Abu Zayd `Abd al-Rahman; historian, sociologist. -1436 Kashi, al-; mathematician. 1445-1505 Suyuti, al-; historian, philologist, theologian.

Presumably you mean muslim contributors and not contributions; I don't see a single contribution on that list. Nevertheless, that list is rather short!

I'm sticking with the introduction of arabic numerals as the greatest contribution by a muslim to modern society.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 Presumably you mean muslim contributors and not contributions; I don't see a single contribution on that list. Nevertheless, that list is rather short! I'm sticking with the introduction of arabic numerals as the greatest contribution by a muslim to modern society.

Don't forget soap, toothpaste, and plenty more. Toothpaste comes from a plant gorwn in the middle east. Atleast, it did before all this synthetic crap came along. And before the muslims invaded europe..europeans didn't bathe. The black death and all that...was from the fact that they didn't bathe, or know how to. This is why aromas and perfumes [also from the muslims] were so appealing. they blocked out the scent of not batheing.

You see a list of contibutors?...well, if they are contributors, that means.. Gasp .. they made contributions. Its up to you to look them up. My post wasn't part of the debate, it was simply a list one could look up if one wanted.

Its interesting to see western arrogance protrayed in the text books. The past from the 6th century up untill [well, now] muslims have been the primary contributors. Yet the muslim world gets mabey one or two pages in your standard textbook. They might talk about Salahu-Din and the crusades, that's about it.

Even today muslims from india, china, and most of south east asian, and even the middle east, are the ones who come to ameirca and europe and designe every thing. Look up the people who do these things some day. Don't jsut assume that since its from the west, it was made by a white aetheist.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir You see a list of contibutors?...well, if they are contributors, that means.. Gasp .. they made contributions. Its up to you to look them up. My post wasn't part of the debate, it was simply a list one could look up if one wanted.

not exactly...it's more like a list of people you say made contributions. I'm not looking into it because i don't care enough to do the research. Since i don't know you i assume you are incorrect unless you provide citations proving your claim.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Its interesting to see western arrogance protrayed in the text books. The past from the 6th century up untill [well, now] muslims have been the primary contributors.

that's patently false. Have you ever heard of a period of time called the industrial revolution? It would be a huge struggle to name a muslim contributor to the industrial revolution.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Even today muslims from india, china, and most of south east asian, and even the middle east, are the ones who come to ameirca and europe and designe every thing. Look up the people who do these things some day. Don't jsut assume that since its from the west, it was made by a white aetheist.

Another baseless claim. Name one of those great muslim american contributors!! European americans are by far (a very very very distant first) the greatest contributors to american science & technology since the inception of the US (i'm sure today that has more of an asian twist).

Have you ever heard of Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Oppenheimer, Solheim, Robert Fulton, Charles Goodyear, Samuel Morse, Joseph Henry, or Alexander Graham Bell? Which one of them was muslim?

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