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Posted by Yohan on Mar-06-2008 00:12:

The Canadian politics thread

Am I the only guy extremely amused by lack of balls by the Liberal party?

Every chance they have to bring down the Conservatives and force an election, they back out. Latest vote on the budget, most Liberals abstain, allowing the budget to pass.

The Bloc is pretty much voting against the Conservatives, and so is the NDP. Actually, the NDP is having so much fun taking potshots at Liberals, and I think winning a lot of votes from the more left leaning Liberals on issues like environment, social programs, even Afghanistan.

The Liberals are claiming to be waiting for the right moment and when they are ready to bring down the Conservatives. I'm wondering when that will ever be, as every month goes by, more the Conservatives solidify their hold on the government, and the Canadian public to get used to that Harper isn't the ultra right wing nutjob that the Liberals tried to paint him as.

On other note, so called NAFTAgate in which a leak from Canadian govt implicated Obama who is running on protectionist agenda on economics but apparently told the Canadians that it's all rhetoric might do some damage. Obama may have lost Ohio nomination in this issue.
Will be interesting how this plays out. On other hand, renegotiating NAFTA will kill a lot of Canadian economy...

Well, at least Afghanistan is a go until 2011...


Posted by Jayx1 on Mar-06-2008 00:41:

Dion is a weak leader and canada should be relieved that there isnt another election. Other than my feeling that the manufacturing sector in Ontario needs more attention, i feel the conservatives are doing a good job. Paying down the debt by 10 Billion this year will free up a lot of money in the future that would have paid the interest on that money. We cant afford to have dion and his goofballs in power. Literally. If he does take power, hold onto your wallets! Now if we only had a way to impeach miller and mcguinty!


Posted by I_Am_Vince on Mar-06-2008 00:51:

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
Now if we only had a way to impeach miller and mcguinty!


+1

If only Mike Harris was still premier


Posted by Yohan on Mar-06-2008 00:53:

I just hear about somebody might propose a law that'd ban smoking inside cars with kids in them.

More govt regulates people's lives, less freedom people have!


Posted by I_Am_Vince on Mar-06-2008 01:10:

quote:
Originally posted by Yohan
I just hear about somebody might propose a law that'd ban smoking inside cars with kids in them.

More govt regulates people's lives, less freedom people have!


That would be Mr.Dalton McGuinty


Posted by Matt on Mar-06-2008 01:20:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...p?s=&forumid=66


Posted by infinity HiGH on Mar-06-2008 01:25:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...5.wharpleak0305

quote:
“That is about the worst thing a country could do to another country — to have an effect on their democratic process


lol the irony...


Posted by Yohan on Mar-06-2008 01:26:

quote:
Originally posted by Invasionmix
That would be Mr.Dalton McGuinty

Sheeeesh! You ruined the surprise!

quote:
Originally posted by Matt
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...p?s=&forumid=66


No thanks. Most PDD posters don't give a rat's ass about Canadian politics, and I find most of them to be rather silly.

I want Canadians POV, hence why I made this thread here


Posted by MarkT on Mar-06-2008 01:44:

I can't even participate here, lol...I get too worked up.

Suffice to say that I'm pretty disgusted with the CPC these days.

Offering a man dying of cancer a million dollars insurance policy for his family to vote with them...leaking a memo that impacts another country's election process...firing the head of an arms length nuclear watchdog agency because your own minister can't take responsibility for his portfolio...failing to act on a 15 yr old who's been held without due process for over 5 years, but now immediately intervening in a case in the middle east.

As far am concerned, Harper acts like a smug, deceitful, hypocritical piece of shit. I can't CALL him that or he might sue me! (even though he should be focusing on cleaning up the garbage in his own party).

I'm even more disappointed by the ineptitude of the Liberal Party to put themselves in a position to step up and turf the CPC from office.


Posted by Yohan on Mar-06-2008 01:47:

quote:
Originally posted by MarkT
I can't even participate here, lol...I get too worked up.

Suffice to say that I'm pretty disgusted with the CPC these days.

Offering a man dying of cancer a million dollars insurance policy for his family to vote with them...leaking a memo that impacts another country's election process...firing the head of an arms length nuclear watchdog agency because your own minister can't take responsibility for his portfolio...failing to act on a 15 yr old who's been held without due process for over 5 years, but now immediately intervening in a case in the middle east.

As far am concerned, Harper acts like a smug, deceitful, hypocritical piece of shit. I can't CALL him that or he might sue me! (even though he should be focusing on cleaning up the garbage in his own party).

I'm even more disappointed by the ineptitude of the Liberal Party to put themselves in a position to step up and turf the CPC from office.

So, I'm guessing you're voting NDP next election? lol

To be fair to Harper, Cadman allegations hasn't been proven... at least not yet


Posted by 7-4-7 on Mar-06-2008 01:55:

To be fair the ineptitude of Conservatives has been proven.

Balls and lack of is a matter of perspective. It is one thing to view the liberals as lacking them when the misuse, mismanagement and obvious partisan politicking on the part of the conservatives is a misuse of what their supporters would call balls.


Posted by Yohan on Mar-06-2008 02:23:

quote:
Originally posted by 7-4-7
To be fair the ineptitude of Conservatives has been proven.

Balls and lack of is a matter of perspective. It is one thing to view the liberals as lacking them when the misuse, mismanagement and obvious partisan politicking on the part of the conservatives is a misuse of what their supporters would call balls.

Politics is dirty.

Not that I condone the Con-servatives, but they are doing all they can to prevent a no confidence vote that the Fiberals are just waiting to trigger. So backroom politicking happens.

I dunno who leaked Obama thing, or if Harper knew about Cadman thing or whatever, but essentially, we have a rookie govt in power. Mistakes are made.
But all things considering, the Con-servatives have delivered (IMO) on most of their key promises, and not to mention the only party to have a foreign policy that isn't based on knee jerk anti Americanism.

Bloc-heads, I dunno what's up with them, except I wonder if Duceppe knows what the hell the Quebecois want (if the provincial polls in Quebec are any indication).

New Dummy-crat Party? Can Taliban Jack put together a coherent thought together?


Posted by smuncky on Mar-06-2008 04:17:

quote:
Originally posted by Invasionmix
+1

If only Mike Harris was still premier



what wonderful days those were


Posted by Yohan on Mar-06-2008 04:29:

quote:
Originally posted by smuncky
what wonderful days those were

Mike Harris > Dalton McGuinty > Bob Rae

Just IMO


Posted by Pett on Mar-06-2008 04:47:

Dion is unelectable, hes such a soft douche.

Hes got an unlikeable french swagger, Chretien had it right


Posted by Jayx1 on Mar-06-2008 07:17:

quote:
Originally posted by Yohan
I just hear about somebody might propose a law that'd ban smoking inside cars with kids in them.

More govt regulates people's lives, less freedom people have!


ive seen it coming for a long time. And its only going to keep getting worse until we put a stop to it.


Posted by Jayx1 on Mar-06-2008 07:26:

harper isnt perfect. But hes kept most of his promises and has made a lot of beneficial changes. Ive seen more impact from harper in 2 years than i did from 13 years of liberal "dont worry be happy" do nothing policy.

The debt is being paid down. We have significant tax savings. And we dont have excessive new wastful largesse socialist programs that the liberals were promising. Remember socialized (ist) daycare? What a disaster that would have been. Also, We finally have a treasurer who can foreshadow a recession without actually triggering it. He also got us out of kyoto which most people dont see is actually nothing more than a way to transfer money from rich country to poor country. Kyoto used the environment as a scape goat to mask it's true intentions.

Lets see. Dion said at one point hed raise the GST back to 7%, NOT pay down our debt and bring in a carbon tax. Yes Dion, that's a great way to keep Canada out of a recession!!


Posted by Yohan on Mar-06-2008 16:44:

Ah, gotta love the loonie PQ

So we have Parti Quebecois, who knows that another referendum is a political suicide, so they just pretend that Quebec is already independent and if they're elected, run Quebec as such.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...y/National/home

quote:

PQ prefers 'conversation' to referendum
Sovereigntists want to act like province is independent rather than hold plebiscite

TU THANH HA

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

March 5, 2008 at 8:24 PM EST

MONTREAL — The Parti Québécois is asking members to free the party from its obligation to hold a referendum during the first term of its next government.

Instead, the party executive wants to replace the referendum pledge by a commitment to act as much as possible as if Quebec were independent within Canada.

Borrowing a phrase from Scottish politics, Leader Pauline Marois said the PQ will initiate a “national conversation” to promote Quebec independence, drafting a manifesto touting the benefits of sovereignty.

“We'll move on all fronts … we'll go to the limits of what can be done in the current system,” Ms. Marois told reporters yesterday.
Parti Quebecois Leader Pauline Marois responds to media questions in this Sept. 25, 2007 file photo.

Parti Quebecois Leader Pauline Marois responds to media questions in this Sept. 25, 2007 file photo. (Jacques Boissinot/The Canadian Press)
The Globe and Mail

Part of 242 resolutions to be debated at a national council meeting in two weeks, the proposal is a tightrope act by Ms. Marois to placate hard-liners while unshackling her from a referendum that could be political suicide.

Last amended in 2005, the PQ program commits the party to a referendum as soon as possible in its next turn in government.

Yesterday's proposal doesn't mean, however, that Ms. Marois wouldn't hold a plebiscite if circumstances suit her. “I got myself out of an obligation, I'm not going to create for myself another one,” she said.

If elected, the PQ will enact Quebec's own constitution and bestow Quebec citizenship. It would also toughen language laws and change the way history is taught in school to fit a “national framework.”

In a nod to some riding members who want to nationalize the sale of water, the executive also wants to declare water a “national asset.”

Resolutions adopted by the national council's 500 delegates become PQ policy, although the party program won't be formally amended until the 2009 convention.

Party president Monique Richard said policies have to be updated in case of an election, given that Premier Jean Charest has a minority government.

Ms. Marois brushed off reporters' suggestions that her brainchild is a gradualist approach similar to ill-fated past initiatives such as the stepwise étapisme strategy or Pierre-Marc Johnson's “national affirmation” within Canada.

The expression “national conversation” comes from the Scottish National Party. However, the idea also reflects the widely held belief that the PQ spends too much time talking about a referendum timetable rather than the benefits of independence.

“The idea is to take the time we need to regroup around our nation-building project,” Ms. Marois said.

The provincial Liberals reacted with suspicion. “It's a document to set up a secession process,” said Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Benoît Pelletier.

Playing the nationalism card while shying from separation has been a key to the success of Mario Dumont's Action démocratique du Québec, whose party vaulted ahead of the PQ in last year's election.

“When a party doesn't know where it's going, it has conversations,” Mr. Dumont said, mocking the PQ's “national conversation.”

The proposals are also an internal test of Ms. Marois's leadership.

Marc Laviolette, the president of SPQ Libre, a left-wing club within the party, showed little enthusiasm for the expression “national conversation.”

“I don't find the expression very appropriate,” he chuckled. “It's rather odd.”

But he said his group would meet Monday to decide on a more detailed reaction.

Other militants, such as former union leader Gérald Larose, praised the emphasis on promoting independence.

The other resolutions released yesterday outlined what Ms. Marois called “an updated approach to social democracy.”

One resolution from the party executive said a PQ government would cut corporate taxes, while at the same time investing massively in education and job training.

Ms. Marois said Quebec citizenship would be granted after an examination testing the applicant's knowledge of Quebec matters – although the party has dropped its controversial idea to make the ability to run for public office conditional on French-language fluency.

Several resolutions proposed scrapping the office of the Lieutenant-Governor, while another called for mandatory dubbing in Quebec of French-language movie soundtracks.


Posted by infinity HiGH on Mar-06-2008 17:44:

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
harper isnt perfect. But hes kept most of his promises and has made a lot of beneficial changes. Ive seen more impact from harper in 2 years than i did from 13 years of liberal "dont worry be happy" do nothing policy.

The debt is being paid down. We have significant tax savings. And we dont have excessive new wastful largesse socialist programs that the liberals were promising. Remember socialized (ist) daycare? What a disaster that would have been. Also, We finally have a treasurer who can foreshadow a recession without actually triggering it. He also got us out of kyoto which most people dont see is actually nothing more than a way to transfer money from rich country to poor country. Kyoto used the environment as a scape goat to mask it's true intentions.

Lets see. Dion said at one point hed raise the GST back to 7%, NOT pay down our debt and bring in a carbon tax. Yes Dion, that's a great way to keep Canada out of a recession!!


Basically what he said. The Conservatives, unlike the Liberals, have actually done something worthwhile in this country. Yea they screwed up, but that's politics. The Liberals got away with much worse and ran this country into the ground when they were in power.


Posted by capo tutti di on Mar-06-2008 19:23:

quote:
Originally posted by Yohan
I just hear about somebody might propose a law that'd ban smoking inside cars with kids in them.

More govt regulates people's lives, less freedom people have!


Ya..because 2nd hand smoke isn't harmful, especially to children who have no freedoms basically...you are right we need more freedom, why should the gov't tell me I can't drink a 26er while driving...


Posted by Yohan on Mar-06-2008 19:27:

quote:
Originally posted by capo tutti di
Ya..because 2nd hand smoke isn't harmful, especially to children who have no freedoms basically...you are right we need more freedom, why should the gov't tell me I can't drink a 26er while driving...

If you're stupid enough to drink a 26er while driving, your balls should be cut off to preventing you from polluting the gene pool.\

Likewise, if you have to be told that second hand smoking is bad for your kids, you fail as parents and don't deserve to be one


Posted by capo tutti di on Mar-06-2008 19:27:

Yohan

Thats not a insult to you really, just i think a weak case of freedom.

I see it as a step in the right direction. We can't have cars on the roads that fail emission standards, we cannot smoke in restaurants as that is harmful to non smoking and smoking patrons and so on.

I can see if your theory is that this move is a baby step into taking away such freedoms as speech and thought. But your comment at your face value, is not valid IMO.

And again no personal offence to you.


Posted by Orko on Mar-06-2008 19:36:

Re: The Canadian politics thread

Good job on starting this thread, I was about to myself actually!

quote:
Originally posted by Yohan
The Liberals are claiming to be waiting for the right moment and when they are ready to bring down the Conservatives. I'm wondering when that will ever be, as every month goes by, more the Conservatives solidify their hold on the government, and the Canadian public to get used to that Harper isn't the ultra right wing nutjob that the Liberals tried to paint him as.

The truth is, as much as defined liberals want to hate on the conservatives (me included), they have been doing a good job. To try and bring down the gov on the budget would have been idiotic. It was a pretty decent budget especially considering the weird economic future ahead.

The budget gets a big OK from me.
quote:
Originally posted by Pett
Dion is unelectable, hes such a soft douche.

That is the whole problem. Dion is an idiot, nobody can understand him, and he just is not picking the right battles.


Posted by Yohan on Mar-06-2008 19:45:

quote:
Originally posted by capo tutti di
Yohan

Thats not a insult to you really, just i think a weak case of freedom.

I see it as a step in the right direction. We can't have cars on the roads that fail emission standards, we cannot smoke in restaurants as that is harmful to non smoking and smoking patrons and so on.

I can see if your theory is that this move is a baby step into taking away such freedoms as speech and thought. But your comment at your face value, is not valid IMO.

And again no personal offence to you.

None taken

I guess the basis of my rant is that already, we are being told what we can and cannot do by the govt unnecessarily.

I read it somewhere that if there is so many laws that a citizen cannot remember all of them, then there are too many laws.

Simple common sense exercised by every individual citizen in a society would mean so many laws are not necessarily. Unfortunately, humanity is dumb I suppose.

My philosophy about law is that a person should be able to do whatever he or she wants, or within a group by mutual consent as long as they are not harming others that don't want to be harmed.
Also, a law has to be enforceable regularly and effectively.

So, the car emissions law makes sense because an individual can harm others and others cannot avoid cars with too much emissions, and the law can be effectively enforced (if the govt chose to)

But the smoking in restaurant law I disagree with, because an individual can make a choice whether to eat in a restaurant that permits smoking or not. If a restaurant wants business from non smokers, they'd choose non smoking.

So, this child in car smoking law, yes, it can harm others, but I fail to see how this law can be effectively enforced.

Another reason is that once there are so many laws, the concept of law loses weight as people become no longer scared by the law.

I really don't think it's necessary for the govt to tell me what I already know to use common sense to not smoke in cars with a kid in it. (On flipside, if the rationale behind smoking free restaurant is for public health reasons, does this mean next law will be no one can smoke in cars with other passengers for health reasons?)


Posted by capo tutti di on Mar-06-2008 19:48:

quote:
Originally posted by Yohan
None taken

I guess the basis of my rant is that already, we are being told what we can and cannot do by the govt unnecessarily.

I read it somewhere that if there is so many laws that a citizen cannot remember all of them, then there are too many laws.

Simple common sense exercised by every individual citizen in a society would mean so many laws are not necessarily. Unfortunately, humanity is dumb I suppose.

My philosophy about law is that a person should be able to do whatever he or she wants, or within a group by mutual consent as long as they are not harming others that don't want to be harmed.
Also, a law has to be enforceable regularly and effectively.

So, the car emissions law makes sense because an individual can harm others and others cannot avoid cars with too much emissions, and the law can be effectively enforced (if the govt chose to)

But the smoking in restaurant law I disagree with, because an individual can make a choice whether to eat in a restaurant that permits smoking or not. If a restaurant wants business from non smokers, they'd choose non smoking.

So, this child in car smoking law, yes, it can harm others, but I fail to see how this law can be effectively enforced.

Another reason is that once there are so many laws, the concept of law loses weight as people become no longer scared by the law.

I really don't think it's necessary for the govt to tell me what I already know to use common sense to not smoke in cars with a kid in it. (On flipside, if the rationale behind smoking free restaurant is for public health reasons, does this mean next law will be no one can smoke in cars with other passengers for health reasons?)


Good argument. 2 different views and a debate, a couple of the many pillars as to why politics exist in the first place.


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